Theories on Steiner Soriano?

[Eric]

Hello everyone

The folks at Yankees Steiner are selling a Alfonso Soriano game used 2001 Yankees #12 jersey. Here's the link

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yankees-2001-12-Alfonso-Soriano-Game-Used-Home-Jersey_W0QQitemZ260123894475QQihZ016QQcategoryZ605 97QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I wrote to Bob Malandro from Steiner to point out that the #2 is a different style than what the Yanks use. Compare it to the Clemens they're selling

Soriano
4458
Clemens
4459

Bob says it definitely came from the Yankees clubhouse, there's no evidence of a number change, so his theory is the Yankees may have had it done outside of their regular jersey order. Any ideas of what this jersey is? Any photos of the Yankees using numbering like this?

Eric

[sarahsdad]

I think it belongs in the same category as the Giambi bat. But of course it is not Steiner's fault it is the fault of some dope in the warehouse who just ships out what he's told. On all the Yankee jerseys in the marketplace has anyone ever seen a #2 like that? Can anyone photomatch Soriano in the jersey? With a #2 like that it should be easy. If it was really worn.
Sarahsdad

[Yankwood]

That's the same "2" that was on the fake Mattingly, I think it was, that was shown on here a while back.

[Eric]

This Mattingly?
4586
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=7826&highlight=mattingly+jersey

[kingjammy24]

2001 soriano..#12 huh?

#12 in 2001 was clay bellinger and only clay bellinger.

in 2001, soriano wore #33 and only #33.

soriano in the 2001 world series:
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5425/sorinp2.jpg

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

in 2001, the yankees home and road jerseys bore the AL 100th Anniversey patch on the right sleeve. as well, later in the 2001 season the yankees wore a black armband on the left sleeve for the WTC victims. i can understand how a game-issued jersey might not have the late season black armband but it didn't even come with the AL 100th Anniv. patch that they wore from the start of the season?

2001:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9684/sorilz0.jpg

anyway, the first time soriano wore #12 was 2002.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

"anything is possible". it's possible that the yankees had a jersey made up locally and the local guy screwed up the 2. i've seen local shops screw up major league orders and have seen those messed up orders show up on the field. in the end, who knows what happened or why. its a little like this jersey:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=934

the anomaly should make it easy to photomatch. without a match though, it's just a wierd anomaly. i wouldn't want an unmatched anomaly in my collection. it's nothing but a big question mark. no need for such a jersey when there are plenty of perfect 10s to go around.

anyway, check these pics out. they're from old timers games at yankee stadium. notice the sleeve logos? i wonder where these jerseys ended up. mixed in with the gamers perhaps? yankee stadium sounds like a mess. saying "it came from yankee stadium" may not be enough.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1892/yankeessn0.jpg

rudy.

[XPFO]

I too asked about the jersey and why the 2 was different and the situation with Soriano not wearing the jersey # until 2002 and this is the response I received

"Jersey was incorrectly listed as 2001, s/b 2002. Yes, font is inconsistent, but no evidence of # change, and it cam from Yankees clubhouse, as do all of our jerseys; not the first time that a number with a differnt font/style has shown up"

Interesting.....

[suave1477]

anyway, check these pics out. they're from old timers games at yankee stadium. notice the sleeve logos? i wonder where these jerseys ended up. mixed in with the gamers perhaps? yankee stadium sounds like a mess. saying "it came from yankee stadium" may not be enough.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1892/yankeessn0.jpg

rudy.


Rudy as far as the old timers game Jerseys I have seen one or 2 of them at Steiners and are they mixed in with regular Game Jerseys from the ones I saw YES - BUT Bob does take his time to sort these out when he sees them come through and pulls them out and catergorizes them as Promotional since you dont know exactly where and when exactly they were used.

[Eric]

FYI- The jersey sold today for $806

[Yankwood]

Maybe he knows more than we do. But to me, that 2 just ain't right.

[JETEFAN]

If this jersey were to have come with a "lampson" letter or was being sold by anyone on this forum, this thread would be 1000 pages long with people wanting their head on a platter!! Just proves that Steiner's great marketing has everyone believing that if it's Steiner it must be real !!! There are more people trying to defend Steiner then there are questioning the jersey....interesting!:rolleyes:

[R. C. Walker]

If this jersey were to have come with a "lampson" letter or was being sold by anyone on this forum, this thread would be 1000 pages long with people wanting their head on a platter!! Just proves that Steiner's great marketing has everyone believing that if it's Steiner it must be real !!! There are more people trying to defend Steiner then there are questioning the jersey....interesting!:rolleyes:

How right you are.:confused:

[hblakewolf]

If this jersey were to have come with a "lampson" letter or was being sold by anyone on this forum, this thread would be 1000 pages long with people wanting their head on a platter!! Just proves that Steiner's great marketing has everyone believing that if it's Steiner it must be real !!! There are more people trying to defend Steiner then there are questioning the jersey....interesting!:rolleyes:

Not entirely true. Steiner has made a handful of mistakes (since taking on the Yankees equipment) that have been documented. Lampson has made a handful of mistakes for each auction he authenticates. Mistakes in the collecting world/hobby happen by all, however, it's how they are resolved that is paramount.

Steiner also has a published phone number, address and support staff. Likewise, when items have been questioned, answers from Bob at Steiner have been provided.

Lampson has NEVER published any contact information, nor will auction houses he works for assist in providing additional insight to his LOA's after the item is questioned.

Great marketing by Steiner? How about simple common sense and being responsive and responsible to your target audience in every possible way?


Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[suave1477]

Also I think everyone is missing a big point here.

You guys are saying that because of Steiners marketing a Soriano Jersey like this gets passed as opposed to if Lampson wrote the letter we would have jumped all over it, but because its Stiener we are defending it.

Think for a second and look at it like this.

With Steiner if the Jersey is or isn't being misrepresented you know it is still a real Jersey coming directly from the Yankees since they have an exclusive contract with the Yankees for there equipment.

Although the exact history of the Jersey of who wore it or when it was worn or was it ever worn is something different!!!

But with Lampson god only knows where the Jersey comes from when he writes a letter.
It could have been my Grandmothers Jersey that she sewn together and Lampson wrote a letter for it lol lol:D

I understand your side but comparing Steiner and Lampson is apples and oranges.

Mind you Lampson gets paid to authenticate!!!

Steiner is not an authenticator, they are just a reseller!!!


Huge difference!!!

[JETEFAN]

Lampson was just an example....mind you a bad one. But if I were trying to sell the jersey I would have been crucified. The point I was making is that besides the fact that yes Steiner is a class act and they are exclusive to the Yankees, bottom line is that they are a private company that benefits greatly on "Yankees" products and the more product produced "mo money!!" And as I mentioned before through great marketing we are to believe that because it's Steiner it's the real deal. Steiner is free to sell anything they want, from the Yankees or not and represent it any which way they want. I am not saying nor do I wish to imply that Steiner is misrepresenting any Yankees items. :D

[JETEFAN]

[quote=suave1477;42335]
With Steiner if the Jersey is or isn't being misrepresented you know it is still a real Jersey coming directly from the Yankees since they have an exclusive contract with the Yankees for there equipment.


Suave how do "I know", because they are telling me so ? Yes they do have the Yankees deal, but are still free to sell anything they want!!

[suave1477]

JETEFAN well for the simplefact a little thing called a law suit?????


It would be ilegal to advertise and sell something that it really isn't.

Not to mention the Steiner is not some run of the mill mom and pop shop. They are a owned by one of the largest conglomreates in the world.

So if you don't want to believe them, then thats cool more for me lol lol:D

[JETEFAN]

Hey Suave are they as big as ENRON? :cool: :eek: :( .....

[sportscentury]

Hey Suave are they as big as ENRON? :cool: :eek: :( .....

George,

I suspect that Jason's epistemology is a little different from ours (based on our many discussions over the years, I believe ours are the same or, at least, very similar). As far as I'm concerned, unless you have a true photomatch or the player hands the item to you as he walks off the field, a person cannot know that it was game worn by the player.

As for Steiner, I have simply seen too many items that show little to no wear. I have bought some Steiner items, but have been highly selective. The last Steiner Yankees item I purchased was purported to be a pair of Randy Johnson's game worn pants. However, when I received them, they had another player's uniform number in the strip tag. When I questioned this, it was explained to me that the pants were attributed to Johnson because of their length. That simply was not good enough for me, so I returned them. However, I wish the information about the other player's uniform number had been disclosed up front, or at least explained in the Steiner letter.

Reid

[JETEFAN]

Reid,

Well said, it all boils down to do your homework and know your source, the shingle hanging by the front door doesn't impress me.


George

[cohibasmoker]

I wonder what the reaction would be from hobby members if the jersey in question DID NOT come from Steiner.

[JETEFAN]

Cohibasmoker, I can tell you exactly what the reaction would be. I once posted a Yankees Jersey which was perfect in every way and was crucified and hung out to dry on the forum for it because it did not have a Steiner cert. I was told that because Steiner had already sold a couple and due to the amount of jersey's that the experts assumed were issued to the players, mine had to be the bad one. I know from whom I got it from and there is no question it was the real deal. Now we have one that is not even close and because it's from "Steiner" people are comming up with all kinds of excuses only because it is Steiner. Is it beyond any realm of possibility that this Jersey is bogus, even if it is from Steiner?

[suave1477]

Well to all the people here I never once said anything regarding the actual use on the Jersey. But it seems like people here like to imagine I talked about use and ran with it.

All I said regarding Steiner was that they have the exclusive rights to the Yankees equipment as to regards of who makes the actual descision what is used and issued or used or issued from promotions I have no idea. I was just merely reiterating the source it came from being STEINER is reliable source of Yankees equipment since they have the contract in place with them. If for some crazy reason Steiner is throwing in fakes that would be a foolish move on there behalf but your right anything could be possible. As far as the people I personally know at their office, I trust them as far as where they got the item from.

As to the other members comment regarding a photomatch or being handed the Jersey off the players back. That would be a beautiful thing in a perfect world unfortunately every time I scream out to AROD can you take your jersey off and give it to me - for some crazy reason he never listens. Which leaves us to possible photomatching - which we all know for every moment in sports and every Game Used item out there, we cannot do. Again as far as the actual use and who used it I ALWAYS SAY DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

I myself have recieved items from them when I thought it was sold as from one player and realized it was from another. I contacted them, let them know of the situation and had it corrected.

As far as the question about Enron the answer is they are bigger then Enron.

[mvandor]

Regarding use, this IS baseball, not football. It's pretty easy for ball players to get through a game without diving, sliding, or otherwise doing much of anything. Hell, you can get through a game without even sweating if you don't get on base or have to run much in the field.

[sportscentury]

Regarding use, this IS baseball, not football. It's pretty easy for ball players to get through a game without diving, sliding, or otherwise doing much of anything. Hell, you can get through a game without even sweating if you don't get on base or have to run much in the field.

Surely there are many game used baseball jerseys that show little to no use - you'll get no argument from me there. However, I have a tough time paying serious prices for jerseys that are purported to be game used when they look identical to jerseys that are nothing more than game issued (this is not a statement about Steiner items as much as it is a statement about buying jerseys in general). If you feel comfortable with paying a premium for jerseys that show little to no use, then that is fine, as it is a matter of personal preference. However, for my dollar, I want items that show evidence that they were in fact game used. Some people take comfort in knowing that a jersey has come from Steiner, regardless of the degree of game use the jersey shows, but I'm not one of them. To each his own, as the saying goes.