MEARS Question- Mays Jersey

[Marichal27]

In the current Mastro auction, lot #1497, shows an early '80's "Mays coaches jersey" graded 8.5 by MEARS. Trouble with this is, Mays, as well as Mantle were barred from baseball because they were involved with casinos, Mays as a greeter. Mays didn't start an type of coaching til spring training in 1986. If MEARS is as good as a lot of you say, then why would they screw up on this jersey as well as others???? Last year they graded a '72 Giants knit, which is in the AMI auction right now. AMI has the correct information stating that it was never game used. Mays was traded before the Giants home knits were ready, HOWEVER in the spring '06 Robert Edwards auction,the same jersey was in that auction and MEARS stated that it was game used. They are as good or as bad as Lampson and GFC. Those authenticators just mentioned are totally useless.

[JimCaravello]

Mays was banned from baseball in 1979 and reinstated in 1986 - could the jersey be from 1986 or later? You should contact MEARS about the jersey directly and pose these type of questions.........jim

[JimCaravello]

I went back and looked at both auctions and the 72 jersey in the Robert Edwards auction from Spring of 2006 is signed - but the one currently in American Memorablia is not signed - they can't be the same jersey, unless the winner in 2006 did a fabulous job of removing the autograph. Unfortunately, the auction catalog only had the front of the jersey pictured and not the "Mays" stitching to compare that........the jersey in Robert Edwards was graded an A10.

Do you know for a fact that the knits were introduced after Mays left?

Relative to your initial post about the early 80's jersey - maybe in the current Mastro auction, they referenced the wrong dates to this jersey? You should request the MEARS worksheet on this jersey and also contact them.

Jim

[lon lewis]

Jim,

not that Marichal 27 needs my help but I'll put in my opinion of the jerseys that you both have referenced. In the case of the Mastro Mays coaches jersey, there is no way that Mays would have used this jersey as you both noted he was banned from MLB during this period also, the Giants didn't used this style ( Alpha mesh, screened #'s and logo) of jersey during this time period. If you try to stretch the time period to when Mays was signed by the Giants (along with McCovey) as an assistant to the G.M./ coach/instructor in 1986, the Giants were 4 years into a different style uniform, so that idea won't fly. Regarding the Mays in the current A.M.I. auction it is, as you mentioned apparently a different jersey than the one in the R.E. auction as the chain stitching in the collar is close but dissimilar and the placemant of the "n" on the front appears to be in a slightly different position in relation to the 3rd button. This is an interesting situation as 1972 was the year that the Giants went from McAuliffe being the dominate supplier of the Giants home uniforms to Wilson. In the case of the home jerseys past history suggests that in '72 the Giants had 2 sets of Wilson knits to one set of McAuliffe which makes me wonder where the 2nd Mays came from. As to when the Giants started wearing knits it's been pretty well established at the end of May/early June. Lastly, I think Marichal27's original point is still on target but maybe not articulated well enough and that was how can you have Mears grade out a jersey 8.5 when it wasn't used. or in the case of the Mays knit in the R.E.auctions an A10 when he was traded before the jersey could have been used? You ask him to contact Mears to get the worksheet why should he? aren't they getting paid to get it right? when did it become his responsibility to correct their or for that matter, anyone else's mistakes. I mean if everyone is going to bash Lampson and all of the others to the point where it's gotten boring, why does Mears get a pass?

[Marichal27]

Jim...You sell jerseys and have your own web site. Shouldn't you know the difference between a early '80's SF Giants style opposed to a mid '80's SF Giants style? They changed styles in 1983. That "Mays" pullover style, from Mastro is from 1977-1982. Lon Lewis is correct. Believe me.

[JimCaravello]

Lon Lewis and Marichal27 - thanks for your responses. Let me first say that I do not have my own web site and I am a vintage GU bat ( pre-80 ) and Yankees GU bat and GU jersey collector. Relative to jerseys, I consider myself very knowledgeable about Yankees jerseys from the 60's to the mid 90's. I do not collect or really follow other teams jerseys and I couldn't tell you if that Giants mesh pullover in Mastronet was from the early 80's or early 90's - I just don't follow other teams jerseys that closely.

My original post was not intended to give MEARS or anyone a free pass. I myself wanted to learn and make sure the items that Marichal27 brought into question were correct. I find the 1972 history of Giants jerseys actually very fascinating, especially since Mays went to the Mets that year and Mays was one of my favorite players as a kid. The fact that the post was about Willie Mays attracted me to it. I remember that MEARS graded A10 1972 jersey and pants in the 2006 Robert Edwards auction and loved the looks of it and still have the catalog.

Some of my questions in my first two threads were posted as maybe an honest mistake was made?......... Maybe the Mastronet jersey in question was a post 86 jersey - or the date in the auction description was wrong? - And were the 72 knits really implemented and used after Mays was gone? I still feel that you guys should contact MEARS and address these questions. If they stand behind their grading and don't respond to these questions then there is a problem. If they graded a 1972 Mays jersey as an A10 and it was in the Giants locker room while Mays was getting his last few at bats at Shea Stadium, then that's a big problem - a really big problem, as someone paid a lot of money for an A10 graded Mays jersey from 1972 that was never worn by him.

I was taken to task by MEARS on their website not to long ago by posting a question about a Munson jersey on ebay that popped up: Here is my quote on the Forum ( in red ) that they cried foul over:

03-15-2007, 03:11 PM
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/image.php?u=46&dateline=1168545447 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/member.php?u=46)JimCaravello (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/member.php?u=46) http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_35217", true);
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 605


http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Munson 1974 Pinstripe on Ebay
Guys - here is a link to my Stottlemyre Jersey from 1974 for sale. This is a road - and I know for a fact all road jerseys were tagged like this. Note that the word "Set" is in the tail. I have good friends who have 1974 jerseys that are tagged identical to this Stottlemyre.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ht=stottlemyre (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=6931&highlight=stottlemyre)

There are also Yankees jerseys from 1978 that are tagged with the name in the collar and have just the year and set number in the tail, without the word "Set". I know - I own a Roy White from 1978 tagged this way and at one time had a Jackson tagged the same way ( road ).

Those are the only two years that I know of from the 70's where the name is stitched into the collar and the year and set number are stitched into the tail on Yankees jerseys.

I think we are losing focus a little on the Wilson symbol. I mentioned earlier that I have a 79 jersey that has the registered symbol at the top - great provenance with the jersey and it makes sense. 78 was the last year for the registered symbol at the top and this is a transition jersey. I am most comfortable with it.

The problem is that the Munson is tagged from 1974 and has a 1979 tag in the tail. If this jersey was recycled from 1974, a new Wilson tag would not have been placed into the tail. If the jersey is from 1979 or later, why would it be stitched with data from 1974?? Hmmmmmmmm........Oh, by the way - SCD Authenticated this???

This is a very good example of a forged Munson jersey............that the authenticators missed............

Jim


I don't look at the MEARS site that often and they had already posted comments on the site that SCD did not authenticate the jersey and they jumped all over me - and I got in trouble for not reading their site - SO..............

I posted originally not to give anyone a free pass, but I think its important that they be contacted and these facts are brought up. Unlike Lou Lampson, the MEARS folks will return e-mails and answer questions and before you completely throw them under the bus - let's see what they come back with? That's all I am saying.......

Jim

[JimCaravello]

Guys - one last item to note for readers of this thread.......... Mays was traded on May 11th 1972 and it sounds as if you are saying that the knits were introduced by the Giants in late May / early June..........I thought it was important to note the date that Mays actually left the Giants........Jim

[Marichal27]

Jim...I know that Lon Lewis AND Dick Dobbins who were VERY good friends, researched those '72 jerseys. They could tell the difference from newspaper photos when the 1972 Giants wore flannels, a slight cream color and when that used knits, a white color. They came up with a date of late May or early June '72 when they started using the knits. Mays was traded in early May, and they didn't start using knits til Mays was gone. As far as me contacting MEARS, they are supposed to be "Experts," so why should I correct them. The Mays on American Memorabilia did say it wasn't game used, since Mays could never have worn it, but it was made up for Mays.
I keep telling people that MEARS, Lou Lampson, GFC COA's are only as good as the paper they are written on. I don't trust any of them as far as their authenticating.