V.A. Auction....

[jboosted92]

101 baseball "game used" jerserys....it severly trumps any other category. Anybody think that its consigners with questionalbe materials, knowing that L.Lampson will "Louthenticate" them..and they will pass inspection...?

any thoughts

[kingjammy24]

without pointing to any issues with any specific jerseys, it's difficult to explain the quantity. eg: if you went through the lot and found serious issues with 70% of the shirts, then it'd lend weight to your theory. as it stands now, it may be as simple as one collector deciding to sell off his entire collection.

upon viewing the VA's baseball gamers, i was more surprised by how many i had seen earlier on ebay. some of them stuck around ebay for a long time without eliciting a buyer. either the sellers/buyers felt that, despite the 20% fee, they could still turn a profit by wrapping their ebay items with overrated auction house cachet or they are, as you said, dumping bad items knowing lou probably won't catch them.

i believe that in many instances it's easier to sell a bad item via certain auction houses than via ebay. on ebay, you've got clueless buyers and savvy buyers. the savvy buyer won't bite in any venue so your only hope is the clueless buyer. on ebay, the clueless buyer has their dukes up. they suspect everyone and everything and in many cases, lack the confidence to pull the trigger in what they perceive to a bargain basement, wild west of a flea market. they want someone else to do the work for them and take the risk out of it so they go to auction houses. they're willing to pay that 20% "peace of mind" fee because they believe the auction house has weeded out the bad items for them and they can rest easy and let their guard down.

personally, if i had a bad item and wanted to unload it, i'd probably do it via an auction house specifically that employs lampson. this is especially true if i already had a well-known reputation for selling garbage items because auction houses typically don't reveal their consigners. i'd have a harder time of it on ebay. i'd probably have some bad feedback. i'd have to reveal an address to the buyer. an auction house does away with all that. i can be the greg marino of game worn items and consign a boatload of items to an auction house and the bidders would never know. i'm not wrapped up in some papertrail like i would be on ebay/if i had done the deal directly. not only am i protected via this "laundering", but lampson would likely slap his name on it and with the bidders placing their faith in him and the auction house, my item would likely sell far easier and for more than it would on ebay. if buyers complain, i never hear it. i can kick my feet up and enjoy a frosty beverage while the auction house stonewalls my angry buyers with a headspinning combination of fineprint doublespeak and the blame game. "sorry but we don't divulge consigners' info. we blame our authenticator. he can't be contacted either. all sales final". if i was on ebay, i'd never hear the end of it. ebay would be all over me, paypal and/or the bank, the buyer contacting me directly. if i was stupid enough to send it via usps, i'd be looking at mail fraud charges. i can mitigate all that trouble by opting to go with an auction house that uses lampson. maybe he'd even be kind enough to replace a facemask to help things along. or maybe you need to be an auction house president to get those sorts of favors.

rudy.

[aeneas01]

personally, if i had a bad item and wanted to unload it, i'd probably do it via an auction house specifically that employs lampson. this is especially true if i already had a well-known reputation for selling garbage items because auction houses typically don't reveal their consigners.

ouch! no sugarcoating going on here! and i happen to agree with everything you stated especially given an experience i recently had with grey flannel - what a nightmare.

ebay at least provides great buyer protection - not in the manner they describe and promote (which is worthless), but by the ability to pay for items through paypal using your credit card.

what i have learned:

- ebay's buyer protection and paypal's buyer protection is a joke imo - regardless of what this team claims, buyer's are really on their own.

- your credit card company is your best friend and will go to bat for you every time; ebay and paypal are powerless when your credit card company agrees to reverse the charges.

- don't keep a balance in your paypal account if you plan on having your credit card company reverse charges; paypal will just take it out of your balance. as a matter of fact, there really is no reason to ever maintain a balance in your paypal account.

- ridiculous discalimers such as "as is" and "all sales final" mean nothing when it comes to returning bogus items when your credit card company is behind you. if you don't like it, send it back.

- "restocking charges" and "unrefundable s&h charges" also mean nothing when it comes to returning bogus items, or items that were not as described. your credit card company will reverse the full amount. you will of course have to pay for return postage tho.

- paying for ebay items with your credit card can be just like paying cash but with the added protection of a credit card company. make your payment with your credit card via paypal and then electronically pay your credit card company for the item from your bank account.

- there is very little, if any, reason to carry a balance in your paypal account. the only thing this accomplishes is it allows paypal to have access to your money in the event they feel the right to collect from you. paypal can and will debit your paypal account if they feel they have the right to do so. instead set up a bank account and link it to your paypal account - use this account to hold your paypal balances.

- you are sol if you pay by money order, cashier's check or the like. it's easy to say you have legal recourse in the event of fraud but pursuing this legal recourse is an enormous undertaking - both in time and finances. when i was brand new to ebay i made every mistake possible on my first transaction and got taken for $600. i'm in california and the crook was in new york. i had the crooks address and called the local police department and local da and explained the crime. i was convinced that the people i spoke with thought they were on camera being "pimped" given how ridiculous my complaint seemed to be to them. after several patronizing "well there isn't really anything we can do unless you are willing to fly to new york..." i gave up. i also gave up trying to pursue it with the usps despite countless phone calls and form filings. i ended up chalking up the $600 loss as tuition for a crash course on ebay - and it was worth every penny given the enormous amount of savings i have enjoyed dealing on ebay through the years!

[bigtime59]

One point: as a eBay seller, I stand behind my items, but I do not refund shipping fees. I don't sell fake stuff, and provide accurate descriptions, so my return rate is almost 0%, but why should I wind up upside down on a transaction, just because you decide you don't like an item?
As a buyer, I of course pay via Paypal whenever possible, and all those transactions are via credit card. It has come in handy with some unscrupulous sellers I've encountered.

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

[sylbry]

Love the quote Mark. What exactly does puckering prove anyways other than the jersey has been washed a couple of times. The only time puckering comes into play is when photomatching. Am I wrong with this statement? I just think puckering is one of the most useless forms of determining use.

Bryan

[worldchamps]

So on ebay I have my bank account and credit card on file. All funds come out of my bank account? So I am still protected or would I be better off just having it charged to a card?

[kingjammy24]

What exactly does puckering prove anyways other than the jersey has been washed a couple of times... I just think puckering is one of the most useless forms of determining use.
Bryan

if a jersey wasn't "used", would it be washed? that is, if a team issued a jersey to a player and he never put it on, would they wash it? i don't believe they would.

what do you feel is a good indicator of use?

seeing most of the current "game used" jerseys out there today, you'd be lucky to get serious puckering. they don't even seem to exhibit wash wear.

rudy.

[kneerat]

I am also wondering what is a good indicator of use... Can't pretty much any form of use be artificially applied? I mean, anyone can throw a jersey in the wash, anyone can apply a rip... Hit and slash marks could be tough to artificially apply however. Thoughts?

[aeneas01]

One point: as a eBay seller, I stand behind my items, but I do not refund shipping fees. I don't sell fake stuff, and provide accurate descriptions, so my return rate is almost 0%, but why should I wind up upside down on a transaction, just because you decide you don't like an item?

guess i wasn't clear - i'm not advocating that fickle buyers use their credit card protection to habitually test drive ebay purchases and then return them for a full refund if they don't happen to meet their fancy. what i am advocating is employing your credit card protection to reverse all charges, including s&h, if the item you receive is misrepresented - regardless if the ebay seller stipulates that all sales are final, that returns are subject to restocking fees, that the item was being sold as is, etc.

for example, i once purchased a vintage football helmet that was advertised as complete with original vintage black schutt facemask and facemask clips. checking the ebay seller's history it was clear he was not new to football helmets. when the item arrived i found that the facemask and clips had been spray painted black - he responded by stating that the facemask and clips were original (which they were) but that he couldn't be expected to describe every minute detail such as the fact that they happened to have been spray painted black. i returned the item and reversed all charges.

honest ebay sellers such as yourself really don't even have to worry about this, honest ebay sellers such as yourself that provide clear photos, thorough item descriptions and that answer pre-sale questions. but those sellers that misrepresent their items, regardless if intentional or not, should be liable for all charges incurred - and they can be if a credit card is used.


So on ebay I have my bank account and credit card on file. All funds come out of my bank account? So I am still protected or would I be better off just having it charged to a card?

paying for an item out of your bank account through paypal is like paying with a money order or cashier's check - once the cash is transferred out, your bank isn't going to try and get it back for you if you get stiffed. but your credit card company will not only try to get your money back, it will get your money back.

another interesting thing about using credit cards is that a credit card company will reverse the charges even if the seller doesn't have a balance in his paypal account or even if he closes his paypal acccount before the reversal hits. under these circumstances paypal gets hit with the reversal and will go after the seller to collect.

[XPFO]

Where did you see the items for sale from VA....I can't find it online, maybe I am just looking in the wrong place???

[kingjammy24]

"Can't pretty much any form of use be artificially applied?"

almost and it usually looks like it was artificially applied.

(i'm still working on being able to hit the leather off a 90 mph ball so it sticks to my bat just like those big league gamers.)

"..anyone can throw a jersey in the wash"

throwing it in the wash is only one piece of the puzzle. you've then got to hit all the rest of the puzzle pieces and somehow make them look natural without any signs that it was done artificially; you can't leave any footprints. easier said than done. most people don't complete the whole puzzle. they're sloppy and it shows. what would you think if you saw a football jersey with tears, grass stains, and hit marks yet not a single thread was broken? how about a baseball jersey with a severely faded strip tag and a crisp manufacturer's tag? broken threads look different than cut threads. the signs of manufactured use become evident. not all use is created equal and you can tell.

"I am also wondering what is a good indicator of use"

personally, i look for the entire puzzle; all the pieces must be there and they must be consistent with each other and with the player. as well, none of them can show any signs of being manufactured artificially. if you look at the big picture, you'll usually find inconsistencies and/or signs of artificial use. all of this said, puckering holds value for me. it's only one piece of the wash wear but how could a jersey incur long-term use without necessarily also incurring substantial wash wear?

rudy.

[sylbry]

if a jersey wasn't "used", would it be washed? that is, if a team issued a jersey to a player and he never put it on, would they wash it? i don't believe they would.

what do you feel is a good indicator of use?

seeing most of the current "game used" jerseys out there today, you'd be lucky to get serious puckering. they don't even seem to exhibit wash wear.

rudy.

Rudy,

Your assuming the jersey is legit to start with. What I am saying is if you take this jersey. Throw it in the wash 10 times or so you will get enough number puckering for Lou to slap a LOA on it. (I don't know Jeter's jersey size so this may be a moot point.) By washing this jersey it would look exactly like many of the jerseys in the VA auction. And most people have access to a washing machine. So my point is what does puckering actually prove? Combined with a properly tagged jersey it can prove use but on a jersey like this (and many other VA jerseys) I don't believe the puckering proves anything.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270127008146&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=017


Bryan

[XPFO]

Found it...my internet connection was just going screwy....

[kingjammy24]

bryan,

if anyone assumes authenticity/use based solely on puckering, then that simply proves they're stupid, not that puckering has no value.

"..my point is what does puckering actually prove? Combined with a properly tagged jersey it can prove use"

you've answered your own question.

if your point is that simply looking at puckering alone is a poor way of determining use, then i agree. on the other hand, if your point is that puckering holds no value because anyone can take a procut or game-issue and add it, then i disagree.

in the grand analysis, puckering is always only one piece of the puzzle. it holds value when juxtaposed against the other pieces. regardless of how relatively easy a single marker may be to replicate, this juxtaposition of pieces is what enables you to arrive at a final conclusion. it's exactly like saying that a single puzzle piece has no value because on it's own it doesn't show much. you can't complete the puzzle without all of the pieces.

take your ebay jeter jersey. as it stands now, the condition simply appears as game-issued. now let's say someone tosses it into the wash a few times and puckering occurs. it now appears game-used. however, when examined in person, the buttons/button-holes would likely be stiff and unscratched and none of the threads anywhere would be broken. the puckering would highlight this inconsistency that would in-turn lead me to believe that the jersey was doctored. had the puckering not been applied at all, i might've believed it was just game-issued. the puckering had value in determining the jersey's real story. when taken into account with all of the other puzzle pieces, the presence (or absence) of puckering can help suss out the truth.

puckering doesn't single-handedly indicate legit use but no single marker does. that's far from saying it "doesn't prove anything". for better or worse, it can prove a lot. it can prove whether alterations were made and whether those alterations were likely to be legit or not. it can also help prove whether the overall use is consistent and legit.

i'm still curious, if you feel puckering proves nothing, what do you consider to be a good indicator of use?

rudy.

[sylbry]

i'm still curious, if you feel puckering proves nothing, what do you consider to be a good indicator of use?

Consistency is a good indicator of use.

Bryan

[CollectGU]

As Rudy stated, puckering is very importnat because legitmate long term game use and puckering go hand in hand. Puckering without other legitmate signs of long term game use screams out fake and actually makes a jersey stick out like sore thumb...

Regards,
Dave

[CollectGU]

Consistency is a good indicator of use.

Bryan


What the heck do you mean? Consistency of what? Use? Usually consistent use involves many things including... puckering??????