Vintage Joe Montana Game Used S.f. 49ers Home Jersey

[big1Z]

I've looked at A LOT of Montana game photos. Including Getty Images and Wire Images. I cannot find a photo to verify the style and font used on this jersey.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200122022242&rd=1&rd=1

I would appreciate input.

Thank you

[XPFO]

Same guy that is selling the Bruce Smith jersey that was rejected by Mears in the below thread and doesn't care.

[RKGIBSON]

Here is my Montana with a team letter, and photo match, that was that was used vs the Chargers.

Roger

[big1Z]

Your Montana jersey is a PERFECT match. Thanks for your help!!!

[mvandor]

I encourage you to look at a font comparison on the NOB before you get too ecstatic. It does not look to me like a match with photos I've seen.

[Eric]

Your Montana jersey is a PERFECT match. Thanks for your help!!!

The curve on the 6 is completely different

[big1Z]

I was refering to the photo posted by RKGIBSON. If you are referring to the Montana on Ebay I agree 100%.

[Eric]

Here is my Montana with a team letter, and photo match, that was that was used vs the Chargers.

Roger

Roger-
That is a beautiful piece. When can we see the entire Roger Gibson collection? You have some amazing pieces. I keep buying things I thinkwere in your collection. Was the mastro James Brooks yours?

Eric

[lund6771]

Hi Roger...

please e-mail me at

petepeschel@qwest.net

Thanks

[G1X]

Roger,

Does your Montana jersey have one layer of mesh material on the shoulder area or the usual two layers? I can't tell for certain from your photo.

Thanks!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[RKGIBSON]

Mark,
It does have two layers in the shoulders. I do not have any photos that would show that right now but could shoot you what ever you need later.

Here is Montana in this jersey.

Roger

[RKGIBSON]

Eric,

I still have my James Brooks. It is one of my favorite jerseys, I'm a Auburn fan. I believe it was used vs the Steelers 9/18/88. I finally found a picture and am awaiting it to arrive to be sure. It took me a year to finally find it.

I have never done business with Mastro. I usually sell through AMI or Grey Flannel.

Thanks,
Roger

[G1X]

Roger,

Thanks for the information on the Montana jersey. No need for a photo.

The Brooks jersey was manufactured no later than 1983 as that was the "transition" year when Russell went to the red, white & blue eagle-head R tail tag/size tag as seen on your Montana jersey. Some 1983 jerseys will sport this newer logo, some will have the older logo such as the one seen on the Brooks jersey.

The Bengals appeared to be mighty frugal during that era judging from Bengals jerseys picked up in a bulk buy made by Bob at Football Heaven back in the early 1990s. They were so frugal that they would occasionally screen a player's name directly to the back of the jersey.

In 1988, they would "mix-and-match" Russell and Champion jerseys. For example, Boomer Esiason can be seen in photos (such as Getty Images)wearing a black Russell early in the year and a black Champion later on. In the Washington game, Boomer is seen wearing a black Champion while Brooks is in a black Russell. And in the biggest game of the year - Super Bowl XXIII - most of the Bengals such as Brooks are wearing Russell, but some players such as Boomer are wearing Champion.

It's no surprise they put Brooks in a "recycled" jersey (Brooks was a Charger from 1981-1983 before coming to Cincinnati). I wouldn't know if he would still be wearing a circa 1981-1983 jersey as late as 1988 as that would be a bit unusual, but you never know with the Bengals! If you feel that the Steelers game from 1988 is a match, you might want to take a look at the Super Bowl video/photos if you haven't already done so.

Hope this information is helpful.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[Eric]

Roger,

Thanks for the information on the Montana jersey. No need for a photo.

The Brooks jersey was manufactured no later than 1983 as that was the "transition" year when Russell went to the red, white & blue eagle-head R tail tag/size tag as seen on your Montana jersey. Some 1983 jerseys will sport this newer logo, some will have the older logo such as the one seen on the Brooks jersey.

The Bengals appeared to be mighty frugal during that era judging from Bengals jerseys picked up in a bulk buy made by Bob at Football Heaven back in the early 1990s. They were so frugal that they would occasionally screen a player's name directly to the back of the jersey.

In 1988, they would "mix-and-match" Russell and Champion jerseys. For example, Boomer Esiason can be seen in photos (such as Getty Images)wearing a black Russell early in the year and a black Champion later on. In the Washington game, Boomer is seen wearing a black Champion while Brooks is in a black Russell. And in the biggest game of the year - Super Bowl XXIII - most of the Bengals such as Brooks are wearing Russell, but some players such as Boomer are wearing Champion.

It's no surprise they put Brooks in a "recycled" jersey (Brooks was a Charger from 1981-1983 before coming to Cincinnati). I wouldn't know if he would still be wearing a circa 1981-1983 jersey as late as 1988 as that would be a bit unusual, but you never know with the Bengals! If you feel that the Steelers game from 1988 is a match, you might want to take a look at the Super Bowl video/photos if you haven't already done so.

Hope this information is helpful.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

Mark
The one from Mastro has a Koch Sports label

http://www.mastroauctions.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=71843&LastLotListing=Lot%20Search%20List&CurrentRow=1

Any idea what year that would be?
Thanks
eric

[RKGIBSON]

Mark & Eric,

I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a Bengal jersey discussion but, I bought 23, 22 Bengal and 1 LA Ram, jerseys from Bengals linebacker coach, Dick Selcer's son. Dick coached the Bengals from 84 to 92 then went to the Rams till 95. Many of these jerseys have the Koch tag and the same amount do not. Some of the Koch tags are black and some are red. I think generally speaking Mark is correct, the the Russell jerseys with this tag were earlier than 88. I do not know when the tag changed. There were quite a few 80's Bengal pictures that showed up on Getty recently. The Brooks picture seems to match the full block font style, sleeve cut and the tiger striping looks like it may be the same, but its hard to tell. When I get the real photo I will know for sure.

Attached are the Kock tag from my Munoz and the Russell tag from my Turk Schonert that I have photo matched to '88, but it is a odd jersey modified with a hand warmer.

Mark, thanks for the imput I do respect your knowledge.

Roger

[G1X]

Eric and Roger,

Not sure about the consistency of when the Koch Sporting Goods tag was attached. My experiences are much like Roger's - some have it and some don't during that era.

As for the Russell tagging, check out the attached photo, especially the 1983 year-tagged jerseys. The older gold-stiched Russell tagging and the newer "R" eagle-head tagging were used in 1983. This is consistent with other NFL Russell jerseys I've observed.

Also interesting to note is that Russell did not use the 100% nylon flag tag when they first went to the "R" tagging in 1983. I have never been able to pin down the exact year Russell started employing the 100% nylon tag, but my guess is circa 1985.

Further note that some of the Falcons jerseys from the mid-1980s included the Reeder-McGaughey Sporting Goods tag. This tag would often wash out of the jersey - sometime completely, sometimes all that remains is a dangling piece of white cloth. I have no idea if the Koch tagging in the Bengals jerseys had the same problem with remaining intact.

Hope this information is helpful.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[G1X]

I forgot to mention in the previous post that all of the jerseys shown in the photograph are Atlanta Falcons game-worn jerseys. The jerseys in the photo are excellent examples of "exceptions to the rule" which is quite common in collecting NFL game-worn jerseys. These inconsistencies can make collecting NFL game-worn jerseys - especially older jerseys - quite confusing and frustrating, but also a whole lot of fun!

Note the following inconsistencies on these jerseys:
1. On the 1976 tagged jerseys, the year tag is at the top of the Russell tag on the white jersey but at the bottom on the red jersey.
2. Also on the 1976 jerseys, there is a Redder-McGaughey tag on the red jersey but not on the white jersey.
3. Although it's difficult to see in the photo, the red 1978 jersey has the year tag screened directly on the jersey. The year tag on the white jersey has the "78" stitched on to a patch that is sewn on the jersey.
4. The placement of the year tag on the 1983 jerseys differ, and the Reeder-McGaughey tag is only on the white jersey.
5. The placement of the year tag varies from 1992 to 1993.
6. The Reeder-McGaughey tag is on the 1983 white jersey, but not the 1982 white jersey.

As a collector of Falcons game-worn jerseys, I could bore you to sleep with the many, many oddities and "exceptions to the rule". The point is, when collecting NFL jerseys, be prepared for the inconsistencies. Just because something like a year tag is not in the exact spot where you think that it should be does not mean that the jersey is not the real thing, especially if everything else on the jersey looks overwhelmingly legitimate.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[RKGIBSON]

Good stuff Mark.

Roger

[RKGIBSON]

I finally got the 1988 Bengal photos. The Brooks jersey does not match. The Turk Schonert does match the 12-17-88 Redskin game. Like I mentioned before, it is a cold weather jersey with a handwarmer pocket so, that is probably why it was still being used in 88.

Roger

[aeneas01]

The Bengals appeared to be mighty frugal during that era judging from Bengals jerseys picked up in a bulk buy made by Bob at Football Heaven back in the early 1990s. They were so frugal that they would occasionally screen a player's name directly to the back of the jersey.

a little off topic but the above portion of your post reminded me of an article i once read regarding the historically "frugal" bengals.

riddell, in a last-ditch effort to try and finally secure a chunk of the facemask market dominated by schutt since time began, came up with the idea of bundling their facemasks with their helmets at no extra charge - sort of a package deal a la windows / internet explorer. but even this ploy didn't work as almost all equipment managers simply dumped the free riddell facemasks in favor of the more popular schutts.

except for the bengals who tended to take as much advantage as possible of riddell's two-for-one deal rather than shell out additional cash for the better schutt masks...

[RKGIBSON]

Aeneas01,

You have incredable knowledge on helmets and a great eye for detail. Are you a obsessed collector or are you involved with the helmet or equpment business somehow?

Roger