Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

[aeneas01]

radtke sports and gridiron authentics, both prolific ebayers, currently have "game issue" favre helmets for sale on ebay - and you gotta love their item descriptions...

radtke sports:

"...many unique game features include: packer's custom pearl-metallic "packer gold" paint, usa tribute flag, clear warning decal..."

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRETT-FAVRE-AUTOGRAPHED-GAME-ISSUE-HELMET-2004-PACKERS_W0QQitemZ230148448117QQihZ013QQcategoryZ27276QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

gridiron authentics:

"...many unique game features include: packer's custom pearl-metallic "packer gold" paint.... usa tribute flag..."

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRETT-FAVRE-AUTO-11-22-01-GAME-ISSUE-TB-HELMET-BF-COA_W0QQitemZ260134640449QQihZ016QQcategoryZ27276QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

hmmm....

radtke goes on to describe his item as a "brett favre autographed 2004 game issue helmet" which is particularly interesting considering the helmet he's hawking is a riddell vsr4 model which favre doesn't wear - favre wears an older riddell model which can be easily verified in photos. these older riddell models were fitted with small plastic posts that held the interior padding in place and these posts were easily visible on the outside of the helmet given they protruded through the helmet shell. riddell replaced these small plastic posts with velcro when they introduced the vsr4 model, which is what radtke is selling, thereby eliminating the need to drill the shell for posts. as such, you won't see any post holes in the vsr4 model - post holes which are very evident on favre's helmet.

even our favorite crook, lambeauleeper, was smart enough not to dress up a vsr4 helmet and try to pass it off on ebay as a favre game issue helmet when he was hawking his versions of "game issued brett favre helmets, issued to brett favre for on-field game use...". but lambeauleeper missed the boat as well given that he also dressed up the wrong riddell model.

gridiron authentics not only has a "game issue" favre helmet listed on ebay but now also has a "tom brady 2001 patriots game issue helmet" with a starting price of $985. ga descibes the brady listing as a "...tom brady new england patriots game issue helmet from the 2001 season and specifically the game against the Jets... helmet is extremely rare. it is not a home-made or 'rigged' piece..."

this item description is more than laughable especially given that this offering is exactly what ga says it's not - "a home-made... rigged piece..." the facemask is incorrect, the chinstrap is incorrect and the patriot side decals aren't even close to being positioned correctly - many seasoned ebay helmet reproducers have offered much more accurate brady reproductions in the past without the "game issue" nonsense and the hefty price tag. apparently gridiron authentics feels the 911 memorial decal they've included adds about $800 to the worth of this weak reproduction.

i must say, however, that i was at least happy to see that ga made it a point to state brady never wore this helmet and made a better effort to describe it as "customized" which wasn't the case with the favre helmet - i would also like to think that my emails to ga concerning the favre helmet may have had something to do with this but who knows. one thing is certain, the responses i did receive from ga regarding the favre helmet were so mind numbingly ridiculous given their absurd double-talk that i was not left with an impression of honesty. so absurd was the bs in these responses that i don't feel comfortable posting them here as it would be tremendously embarrassing for ga - but if anyone is that interested please pm me and i will send them to you.

[mvandor]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

As someone who has defended both companies here (although I too have expressed disappointment to Rick Radtke over his abuse of the term "game issue"), I'm most interested in hearing the full story and your uncensored views. E-mail is mvandor@simpworld.com

Up until now, I have been of the impression that GA's game issued items were legit, however, you're calling them into question now so I'd appreciate the scoop.

BTW, for the record, I have never purchased anything sold as "game issued" from either party.

[mvandor]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

Could not find a Brady pic from the 2001 Jets game but found this for some comparison. Only discrepancy I picked up was the rear bumper font.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/viewimage.x/00000000/gridironlegends/bradygih911_3.jpg?vvid=51866655&allow_track_link=1&track=023826a160-b296e&sp=1

Interestingly, it appeared this is before Brady was starting, all shots on Getty showed Bledsoe at QB.

[mvandor]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

Did locate this 2001 pic of Brady and I would concur it LOOKS like the GA has a soft chinstrap with incorrect Riddell lettering as compared to this one. I don't see the facemask issue you cite though...

[radtke]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

We are not trying to mislead anyone by the the "Game Issued" statement. The NFL teams give the athletes 2 helmets a year, one to wear on the field and one as a back-up. I guess the back-up you can call a "Game Issue". Which in this business is a very loose term considering what passes as "Game Issues". If we received one of the back-ups issued to Favre or any other player of his stature it would be much higher in price than $500.00 price tag. We will be changing the descriptions to "Game Style" helmets from now on. The differences as you see in the "Game Style" helmet were created because a lot of collectors want all the decals, facemasks, and chin straps that their favorite players wear. Unfortunatley, Ridell does not sell Regular Pro-Lines with the decals or facemasks like that to the general public. Thus, creating a market for helmets to be altered to accomadate the collector who wants something a bit more like what Favre is wearing on the field . We appreciate the feedback and we take it very seriously here. We are available MON-FRI 9AM-6PM EST. Our phone number is readily available if you have questions or concerns.

[mvandor]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

We are not trying to mislead anyone by the the "Game Issued" statement. The NFL teams give the athletes 2 helmets a year, one to wear on the field and one as a back-up. I guess the back-up you can call a "Game Issue". Which in this business is a very loose term considering what passes as "Game Issues". If we received one of the back-ups issued to Favre or any other player of his stature it would be much higher in price than $500.00 price tag. We will be changing the descriptions to "Game Style" helmets from now on. The differences as you see in the "Game Style" helmet were created because a lot of collectors want all the decals, facemasks, and chin straps that their favorite players wear. Unfortunatley, Ridell does not sell Regular Pro-Lines with the decals or facemasks like that to the general public. Thus, creating a market for helmets to be altered to accomadate the collector who wants something a bit more like what Favre is wearing on the field . We appreciate the feedback and we take it very seriously here. We are available MON-FRI 9AM-6PM EST. Our phone number is readily available if you have questions or concerns.

Rick, kudos for addressing the issue. I have expressed concerns to you previously by email over your use of the term "game issue" to describe helmets customized to approximate game used helmets issued by the teams. This change is certainly a significant movement toward better "truth in advertising".

[big1Z]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

You beat me to the punch. Like I said they are all guilty if not more than lambeauleeper. Favre currently wears a WD-2 at least lambeau had a 1996 WD-1 when he had the Favre Super Bowl 31 lid. From my emails with lambeau he never admitted "dressing" up a Proline like Radtke did (not saying he didn't either). Also lambeau at least got the placement right on his decals and used the correct size. BRADY WEARS A XL HELMET! DUH!!!! Not to defend lambeau but he was THE FIRST to come clean. I will poast more abuse as I see it and appreciate comments. PS mvandor you got a deal from lameau on your charges helmet if your reputable buddy Gridiron Authentics starting bid is $985.00 and claims to have sold his made up helmets signed by Brady for $1,400.00. I guess they're ALL crooks....I wouldn't be surprised if they get all their helmets from the same source. Now this is REAL STUFF...........

[Eric]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

Big1Z

I sent you an email at the address you registered with. I got a recept that said you read it. Please write me back ASAP
Thank you
Eric
ecky3@aol.com

[Eric]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

Big1Z

How do you explain the fact that you are posting from the same IP address as 34DD who has been banned from this site.

34DD is also known as lambeauleeper.

Hmm

[mvandor]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

Big1Z

How do you explain the fact that you are posting from the same IP address as 34DD who has been banned from this site.

34DD is also known as lambeauleeper.

Hmm

LOL, exposed again. ***content removed. let's not pile on please***
Nevertheless, this discussion HAS lead to lambeau cleaning up his language a bit and now Rick Radtke is addressing the issue of misuse of the term "game issue". Now if Gridiron Authentics responds, we'll be 3 for 3 and the collecting hobby will have taken a small step forward.

[aeneas01]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

We are not trying to mislead anyone by the the "Game Issued" statement. The NFL teams give the athletes 2 helmets a year, one to wear on the field and one as a back-up. I guess the back-up you can call a "Game Issue". Which in this business is a very loose term considering what passes as "Game Issues". If we received one of the back-ups issued to Favre or any other player of his stature it would be much higher in price than $500.00 price tag. We will be changing the descriptions to "Game Style" helmets from now on. The differences as you see in the "Game Style" helmet were created because a lot of collectors want all the decals, facemasks, and chin straps that their favorite players wear. Unfortunatley, Ridell does not sell Regular Pro-Lines with the decals or facemasks like that to the general public. Thus, creating a market for helmets to be altered to accomadate the collector who wants something a bit more like what Favre is wearing on the field . We appreciate the feedback and we take it very seriously here. We are available MON-FRI 9AM-6PM EST. Our phone number is readily available if you have questions or concerns.

first of all i have to say how very impressed i am with this post and the edited ebay relisting of the favre helmet! very well done and imo will go a very long way in cementing your reputation as a well-respected, honest dealer.

but i would like to comment on a couple of things you mentioned in your posts as follows:

..."Game Issue". Which in this business is a very loose term considering what passes as "Game Issues".

"this business" you mention is you and you are an industry leader - the term "game issue" is only a loose term because you have allowed it to be and have facilitated its misuse. when industry leaders such as yourself stop misusing the term then it will be painfully easy to spot the small-time crooks such as lambeauleeper when they continue to throw the term around.

but, again, what you did here today and on ebay was very, very commendable and a huge step forward imo - and it could also go a long way in righting the ship.

The differences as you see in the "Game Style" helmet were created because a lot of collectors want all the decals, facemasks, and chin straps that their favorite players wear. Unfortunatley, Ridell does not sell Regular Pro-Lines with the decals or facemasks like that to the general public. Thus, creating a market for helmets to be altered to accomadate the collector who wants something a bit more like what Favre is wearing on the field .

the relatively recent availabilty of pro/college on field decals has been a double-edged sword. on one hand it has given collectors something that was never available before - easy access to helmets that very closely match what the players actually wear on the field at a potentially very reasonable price. but these decals also created a golden opportunity for unscrupulous sellers. as you mention there is certainly a market for such customized helmets - a market that the stock pro-line models can no longer compete with.

yet, having said this, there is absolutely no excuse for claiming that a helmet is a "game issue" piece of equipment when it clearly isn't. nor does the flimsy excuse that the term "game issue" is simply used to differentiate between stock pro-line helmets and custom game style helmets hold any water - an excuse which, believe it or not, i've heard far too often.

there are many, many talented ebayers that have been putting together custom game style helmets for years - ebayers that have never felt it necessary to call their helmets "game issue" for fear they would be confused with stock pro-line helmets.

there is only one reason to claim a helmet is a "game issue" piece of equipment when it isn't, and one reason only - to unscrupulously attempt to inflate the value of a reproduction.

[jayt1234]

For What it's Worth the 2001 Chin Strap...

Tom Brady's chin straps is an Adams labeled as a Riddell...Not To sure why Brady has the lettering upside down, but he continues to do this with his current set up (Riddell sof chin strap)...He did at one time use a legit Ridell with a hard chinstrap for at least a season as well.

[mvandor]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

So, no response from Gridiron Authentics? Very disappointed if Joe intends to leave the many questions over his pricey "game issued" pieces unaddressed. And I say that as a very good repeat customer of his.

[mvandor]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

So, no response from Gridiron Authentics? Very disappointed if Joe intends to leave the many questions over his pricey "game issued" pieces unaddressed. And I say that as a very good repeat customer of his.

So, aeneas, no further response from Joe at Gridiron Authentics to you about the issue?

[aeneas01]

Re: Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

So, aeneas, no further response from Joe at Gridiron Authentics to you about the issue?

i received an email last week from ga stating that joe was out of town but that he would contact me monday to continue our dialogue - tuesday has come and gone and no word. as such, i will just go ahead and post the exchange we've had so far.....

me:

hello - are you stating that this particular helmet (brett favre auto 11/22/01 game issue tb helmet * bf coa - 260124640857) was issued by the packers to brett favre for game use but never saw action? that this helmet was once the property of the green bay packers, assembled (decals, facemask, etc.) by the packers' equipment manager? thank you very much.

joe:

Sorry for the delay in replying but I was out of town and the others in the office couldn't answer all of your questions. We cannot verify that the Packers Equipment Mgr. himself or the Packers personally prepared this helmet for Brett. There are only two reconditiong and helmet sources to the NFL and our contact acquired this helmet from these connections. We had an Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders and a Marino a while back and each athlete verifiede in person for us that the helmet was in fact an issue they would of worn in the actual game. We do not assemble the helmet or alter it in any way. To further verify the accuracy of this issue, we had sold one of these 'game issues' to someone who we later found out 'beat it up' and sold it as game used. The helmet was unfortunately confirmed as game used by a prominent authenticator who recognized the helmet as a true player issue but unfortunatel;y was duped by this character. None the less, I pass this story on to you to help verify its accuracy/authenticity. Hope this helps and thank you. Joe Gridiron Authentics

me:

i very much appreciate your detailed response but but i'm still not clear... your ebay item description states: "Featured is one of only four Packers 'Throwback' game issue helmets ever released like Brett wore that day." you replied that your contact obtained it from an nfl reconditioner - as such, given your ebay item description, are you saying that the nfl reconditioner "released" this helmet and it's only "one of four" ever released by this particular reconditioner - is this plausible? furher, if it was in fact "released" by a reconditioner, why would that make it a "game issued" helmet let alone a brett favre "game issued" helmet?

i know some dealers like to use the term "game issued" when helmets are dressed with the type of decals teams use on the field (nfl shield, clear warning label, etc.) even though these helmets never had anything to do with the team - i've beem told by some of these dealers that they use this term simply to differentiate these "custom helmets" from the stock riddell pro-line helmets that are readily available rather than using the term for what one might expect - a helmet that was actually issued to a player, for game use, by the team. is this the case with your favre helmet? again, thank you very much for your time joe

joe:

We know of only four helmets that were ever made available like this and as noted in the listing, it is exactly as what Brett wore that day including, custom Packers paint finish, Brett's choice face guard, chinstrap, etc. A team issues a helmet based upon an individual player's requests and needs. This helmet is according to Brett's specs and varies in numerous ways from the typical Riddell Pro-Line Helmet that is passed off as game quality. It is the same 'quality' as an actual game helmet but lacks in many particulars that separates a true game helmet apart from a Pro-Line - like thew Brett Favre helmet featured in this ebay listing. I agree, many dealers have loosely used 'game issued' to describe their 'dressed up' Pro Line helmets. That is not the case with this and to further substantiate the difference. All Pro-Line's are a VSR-4 model however, the model in this listing is a WD-2 - completely different and only available as a custom order from Riddell. In fact, I don'e believe Riddell even makes this model any more. Hope this helps. Joe Gridiron Authentics

me:

i very much appreciate your further attempts at clarification but, unfortunately, i still don't understand how you can in good conscience claim that your item is a "brett favre game issue helmet" as well as a "..rare piece of favre memorabilia and unique piece of game issue equipment." - at best this is very misleading and, at worst, appears to be intentionally misleading in my opinion.

it's easy to play the semantics game when it comes to the term "game issue" but at the end of the day i believe we all know exactly what this term really means - and any attempt to blur the lines of definition only smacks of dishonesty. you mentioned in your email that you had an "...emmitt smith, barry sanders and a marino a while back and each athlete verified in person for us that the helmet was in fact an issue they would have worn in an actual game" - i do not doubt this at all but it does not validate, which you seemed to imply, your use of the term game issue in this case. just because an athlete agrees that a given helmet looks like what he would have been given for game use doesn't make that helmet his "game issue" helmet.

the fact of the matter is you have listed a very nice reproduction that matches favre's game day helmet - but it's still a reproduction. is your helmet a heck of a lot nicer and a heck of a lot more authentic in appearance than a stock pro-line model? of course it is - but, again, that does not make it a favre game issue helmet.

from your responses to my emails it's clear that you are not only a very nice person but also a professional who takes great pride in his business - as such it's no wonder why gridiron authentics enjoys such a wonderful reputation. and because of this, for the life of me, i don't understand why you would chance risking your hard-earned image by inviting doubt over something as transparent as "game issue" claims. further, as a well-respected industry leader, i would also think you would want to separate and distance yourself as far as possible from those easily identifiable charlatans that play these word games.

i noticed that radtke sports recently listed an item on ebay as a "game issue favre helmet" with an item description that was almost identical to yours - but he has since edited his listing to read "game style favre helmet" which i thought was very admirable. while it's true that the helmet he's selling is a customized pro-line and not a customized wd model such as yours, i thought it was nonetheless an important gesture coming from another well-respected memorabila dealer.

anyway joe, i want to thank you again for your patience in taking the time to explain to me why gridirion authentics has chosen to describe the favre helmet as it has - while i don't agree with your business decision i think i at least understand why you felt motivated to do so.