Don Mattingly...Game Used or Batting Practice Bat?

[3arod13]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Don-Mattingly-Signed-Game-Used-Bat-New-York-Yankees_W0QQitemZ200129039551QQihZ010QQcategoryZ60 596QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Emailed seller....doesn't respond

[JimCaravello]

My opinion of the bat is that it clearly had tape on the barrel at one time. I don't know how you can come to any other conclusion by looking at the pics. A lot of times, players will use a bat pretty extensively and then tape the barrel and use it for BP as the bat maybe doens't have the pop it used to - or the barrel may have deadwood, etc. Hope that helps. Jim

[3arod13]

My opinion of the bat is that it clearly had tape on the barrel at one time. I don't know how you can come to any other conclusion by looking at the pics. A lot of times, players will use a bat pretty extensively and then tape the barrel and use it for BP as the bat maybe doens't have the pop it used to - or the barrel may have deadwood, etc. Hope that helps. Jim

Thanks! Just as I figured. Seller finally reponded once he saw my post on GUU. However, he also added a threat of his lawyer.

[kellsox]

I dont know the whole story but its a shame that this seller chose to mention a possible threat from his lawyer when questions were directed to him, then the forum, about the use of a bat with a 2K+ asking price. If an item is put on the market, questions should be expected from potential buyers. It's that whole "do your homework" thing.
kelly

[TFig27]

I saw this auction and wondered the same thing. The thing that threw me off is that there are blue marks where the tape used to be. Are these ball marks or rack marks?

[JimCaravello]

I have had some dialogue with Zane Burns on this bat and he indicates to me that the bat was used by Mattingly in games prior to being taped. I tend to agree with his analysis, even without seeing the bat first hand - the bat appears to have great use - great Mattingly tar markings - and #7 on the butt and knob, which Mattingly did quite often on his game bats during this period.

Did Mattingly use this in BP after he used it in games? I don't think anyone knows - but the barrel was fully taped at some point in time and you don't tape a barrel to use it in a game - players ususally do this to use the bat in batting practice.

As a collector - you have to make a determination as to what you want in your collection and do the following facts make you buy or pass on this bat?:


The bat shows perfect Mattingly attributes and game use and there is an extremely high probability that the bat was used extensively by Mattingly in games.
At some point in time, the barrel was fully taped and then the tape was removed.
Players typically tape barrels in this fashion even on bats used in games to later use for BP.
You don't really know if Mattingly used the bat in BP, but you feel good about the fact that it was used during games.Great case study here - sounds like this thread has helped a lot of people and if anyone has any questions, please let me know. Thanks, Jim

[3arod13]

I dont know the whole story but its a shame that this seller chose to mention a possible threat from his lawyer when questions were directed to him, then the forum, about the use of a bat with a 2K+ asking price. If an item is put on the market, questions should be expected from potential buyers. It's that whole "do your homework" thing.
kelly

Agree 100%. Seller never reponded to my emails until I posted on GUU. He then threatened me with his lawyer. I have every right to ask questions or question an item if i feel a reason too.

I never sent the seller a rude or nasty email. Only questioned it as a BP bat.

I never understand why so many sellers get defensive when questioned. To me, that only shows guilty.

[Carlevv]

Ive been watching this thread and have to comment. If a player ever puts tape on his bat its for BP only. You dont tape up a bat and think its ever going to be used in a game. If you open up a dozen bats and think you might have a winner you use it in BP for a few swings and then you use it in the game. I dont know why people try to fool everyone and say its a game bat when its obvious there has been tape on the barrell? Clean it up fellas, game used bats are just that, not tape taken off after used in BP. Listen, if you put in on EBAY some Donnie Baseball fan might be happy to bid on this...... However, Mattingly marked all his bats with 7 on the knob and the barrell for security reasons. Being a former bat boy i always wondered why Donnie Baseball put Mickey's number 7 on his bats and it was obvious.... he didnt want anyone to look at the knob or the barrell in a bat bag and take his bats. Please understand his therory guys.... His real gamers are cool, his fake gamers are a dissapointment.

[3arod13]

Ive been watching this thread and have to comment. If a player ever puts tape on his bat its for BP only. You dont tape up a bat and think its ever going to be used in a game. If you open up a dozen bats and think you might have a winner you use it in BP for a few swings and then you use it in the game. I dont know why people try to fool everyone and say its a game bat when its obvious there has been tape on the barrell? Clean it up fellas, game used bats are just that, not tape taken off after used in BP. Listen, if you put in on EBAY some Donnie Baseball fan might be happy to bid on this...... However, Mattingly marked all his bats with 7 on the knob and the barrell for security reasons. Being a former bat boy i always wondered why Donnie Baseball put Mickey's number 7 on his bats and it was obvious.... he didnt want anyone to look at the knob or the barrell in a bat bag and take his bats. Please understand his therory guys.... His real gamers are cool, his fake gamers are a dissapointment.

Well said, and thanks for your comments and info!

[Yankwood]

Ive been watching this thread and have to comment. If a player ever puts tape on his bat its for BP only. You dont tape up a bat and think its ever going to be used in a game. If you open up a dozen bats and think you might have a winner you use it in BP for a few swings and then you use it in the game. I dont know why people try to fool everyone and say its a game bat when its obvious there has been tape on the barrell? Clean it up fellas, game used bats are just that, not tape taken off after used in BP. Listen, if you put in on EBAY some Donnie Baseball fan might be happy to bid on this...... However, Mattingly marked all his bats with 7 on the knob and the barrell for security reasons. Being a former bat boy i always wondered why Donnie Baseball put Mickey's number 7 on his bats and it was obvious.... he didnt want anyone to look at the knob or the barrell in a bat bag and take his bats. Please understand his therory guys.... His real gamers are cool, his fake gamers are a dissapointment.I understand it was a common practice of his to put a 7 or a 5 on the knob to deter theft. And I also believe that was true. The only thing I question is, much as I love Don, did he know whose numbers those were? And wouldn't that draw attention even more? This practice obviously did not work as there were many of these bats around before collectors started stashing his bats away. You would have thought he would use a number like 50 or 52 or something that wouldn't draw so much attention. At any rate, the BP bat on ebay looks nice but it's out of my price range for a bat that does not appear to be a true "gamer".

[Yankwood]

I understand it was a common practice of his to put a 7 or a 5 on the knob to deter theft. And I also believe that was true. The only thing I question is, much as I love Don, did he know whose numbers those were? And wouldn't that draw attention even more? This practice obviously did not work as there were many of these bats around before collectors started stashing his bats away. You would have thought he would use a number like 50 or 52 or something that wouldn't draw so much attention. At any rate, the BP bat on ebay looks nice but it's out of my price range for a bat that does not appear to be a true "gamer".I do, however, agree with Jim C. on the matter that some "gamers" do "live on" so to speak as batting practice bats and that may be the case with this particluar bat. I have quite a few that are taped but I have reason to belive that previously they were used in games. This does not bother me. In fact BP bats in general don't bother me. I just value the ones that I know for a fact were used in games a bit more. The one on ebay right now, I would love to own but I just don't have the money for it right now.

[Nnunnari]

This bat is obviously a BP bat and looking at the distinct difference in coloring from the taped and untaped area of the barrel, the tape was probably on there for some time. The fact that the seller doesn't even mention this in the listing is a shame, especially because many people consider Zane a trust worthy seller. The fact that it's not mentioned and he's asking for $2,500 for this bat is absolutely ridiculous. Do you think he would mention the possibility of it being a bp bat to a potential buyer, or just let someone who is new to our hobby purchase this bat only to find out years later that he purchased a bp bat? Even if the bat shows perfect game characteristics, the moment tape is placed on the barrel, the value decreases. A so called "reputable" dealer would not leave this bit of info out of the description.

[YankeeChowda]

Crack kills?

[metsbats]

This bat is obviously a BP bat and looking at the distinct difference in coloring from the taped and untaped area of the barrel, the tape was probably on there for some time. The fact that the seller doesn't even mention this in the listing is a shame, especially because many people consider Zane a trust worthy seller. The fact that it's not mentioned and he's asking for $2,500 for this bat is absolutely ridiculous. Do you think he would mention the possibility of it being a bp bat to a potential buyer, or just let someone who is new to our hobby purchase this bat only to find out years later that he purchased a bp bat? Even if the bat shows perfect game characteristics, the moment tape is placed on the barrel, the value decreases. A so called "reputable" dealer would not leave this bit of info out of the description.


That is not the fact. The listing does mention that the bat was taped for BP after game use. If you look carefully on the barrel there are blue ball marks, deadwood and some lace marks.

David

[kellsox]

That is not the fact. The listing does mention that the bat was taped for BP after game use. If you look carefully on the barrel there are blue ball marks, deadwood and some lace marks.

David

That information was not revealed by the seller in the original listing. It was added along with thanking people for "all of the interest".
Kelly

[Nnunnari]

Unless someone actually watched Mattingly use this bat in a game then tape it for bp or fungos nobody has any idea where this bat came from. Who's to say it wasn't used in bp (hence the ink transfers and seam marks) then it was taped after the grain started to separate? I guess it doesn't really matter, with an asking price like that he'll be holding onto the bat for a long time.

[metsbats]

Kellsox,

My bad. Thank you for pointing that out. I just saw the "revised" tag on the listing.


Nnunnari,

Completely agree with you on your last point.

-David

[3arod13]

Thanks to everyone's comments and the existence of this forum, the seller somewhat changed the description to indicate information of a BP bat, but still strongly stresses game used.

I agree with most that a BP bat is a BP bat. I don't see players using bats as BP bats, then using them in games. I believe they try a bat out in practice, and if they don't like it, they tape it up and use it as a BP bat.

Again, thanks to you all and this forum for keeping the hobby safe!

[camarokids]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230005497943&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fws%2Fsearch %2FSaleSearch%3Fsofocus%3Dbs%26satitle%3D%2B230005 497943%2509%26sacat%3D-1%2526catref%253DC5%26fbd%3D1%26sspagename%3Dh%253 Ah%253Aadvsearch%253AUS%26from%3DR6%26nojspr%3Dy%2 6pfid%3D0%26fswc%3D1%26few%3D%26saprclo%3D%26saprc hi%3D%26fss%3D0%26saslop%3D1%26sasl%3D%26fls%3D4%2 526floc%253D1%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D0%26salic%3D1%26saatc%3D1%26sadis% 3D200%26fpos%3D%26fsct%3D%26sacur%3D0%26sacqyop%3D ge%26sacqy%3D%26ftrt%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26sabdlo%3D%26 sabdhi%3D%26saaff%3Dafdefault%26afcj%3D%26afmp%3D% 26fsop%3D1%2526fsoo%253D1%26fcl%3D3%26frpp%3D50%26 fvi%3D1


check out this picture of Q.McCracken using a taped bat in a game ......

I do think its a spring training game though , by looking at the dugout. Plus he is wearing home whites .....

[3arod13]

Chris,

You never got back to me about pulling my comments about Zane on the Mattingly bat.

After I provided you all email proof, your last email stated you would get back to me on the status. It's been a few days.

Tony

[3arod13]

Chris,

You never got back to me about pulling my comments about Zane on the Mattingly bat.

After I provided you all email proof, your last email stated you would get back to me on the status. It's been a few days.

Tony

Cris, I would hope that you aren't blowing me off on this matter. I posted what was factual information about Zane and his threat to me about a question I asked in this forum. You pulled my comments. I then provided you proof (all of his emails to me). You then email me stating based on the emails I sent you, the information appeared to be and you would have to discuss with your group. It's been days and not response.

My main issue with this is, I posted a question in this forum. Never main one negative comments or accusation against Zane. He saw my post on GUU, then base only on my question, sent me a threatening email.

I've enjoyed this website and all of its members. However, Zane cross a line and I feel since I provided you proof of my comments, they should be resinstated.

Standing by for your response.

Regards, Tony

[productionline]

It appears that Zane Burns 'legal' scare tactic spooked the folks at Game Used Universe. I guarantee you that Burns gave it the ol lawyer tactic and it worked......this time.

My opinion of Burns has COMPLETELY done a 180 over the deal alone.

This industry is supposed to police itself so I find it to be very unfortunate that GAME USED UNIVERSE is selectively chosing what dealers can be policed.:mad:

[3arod13]

It appears that Zane Burns 'legal' scare tactic spooked the folks at Game Used Universe. I guarantee you that Burns gave it the ol lawyer tactic and it worked......this time.

My opinion of Burns has COMPLETELY done a 180 over the deal alone.

This industry is supposed to police itself so I find it to be very unfortunate that GAME USED UNIVERSE is selectively chosing what dealers can be policed.:mad:

I realize there are groups...clicks...and those who look out for and take care of each other. What I have a problem is, Zane Burns ignored my emails on ebay when I asked about the Mattingly bat possibly being a BP bat (obvious tapes lines). It wasnt until I posted the question on this forum (It was only a question) that Zane Burns emails me with threats of a laywer and posting comments on other websites about this bat. Obviously, he is a member of GUU or at least reads posts to see what people are saying about his bats. In no way did I say anything against him or tell anyone not to deal with him on GUU.

I then make a post on this forum about his actions and threats against me. GUU removes my posted based on no facts to back it up. I themn email Chris all of Zanes emails and Chis emails me back stating based on the emails I forwarded to him from Zane, my comments seem to be factual. He said he needed to discuss with this group at GUU and would get back to me that night. It's been more than 5 days.

I thought this forum was to help protect the integrity of this hobby. I don't care if Zane Burns is Gods gift to this hobby. His conduct was inappropriate....and his threats were unwarranted.

Are we really here to protect the integrity of the hobby, or only protect others we like or do business with.

I have enjoyed being a part of this forum, however, it now makes me wonder its real purpose.

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

In addition, the main purpose of my post about Zane Burns was because he saw my question to the forum on his Mattingly Bat and then emailed me with a threat with his laywer for posting my question on GUU.

If he would have threatened me via ebay for questioning his bat, I wouldn't have posted anything about the matter on GUU. It was only because he saw my question on GUU that he emailed and threatened me.

I don't know him and never dealth with him, so it's not personal. He crossed a line within GUU and I believe everyone in this forum has the right to now.

Regards, Tony

[skipcareyisfat]

Tony,
For what it's worth, I had an incident with Zane a few years ago over an issue which I found to be very troubling, ethically speaking. I think I'm pretty reasonable and easy to deal with, but his reaction was so over the top and unnecessary that I decided that from that point forward I would never do business with him again. He may know bats, but guys like that IMO aren't worth messing around with.

[3arod13]

Tony,
For what it's worth, I had an incident with Zane a few years ago over an issue which I found to be very troubling, ethically speaking. I think I'm pretty reasonable and easy to deal with, but his reaction was so over the top and unnecessary that I decided that from that point forward I would never do business with him again. He may know bats, but guys like that IMO aren't worth messing around with.

Thanks for your comments.

I'm pretty easy to deal with also. I'm not out to hurt anyone or discredit them. Heck, I've dealt with many rude people when selling, but I always take the high oad.

This was an unfortunate incident and his attack on me was unwarranted. And it was done through GUU.

But what really bothers me now, is how GUU has handled this matter. I provided them proof with Zane's emailS (which GUU always states you must back up your accusation/comment with proof) and still, no response and it just seemed to be ingorned after removing my comments.

I'm not looking for much here. Just fairness to all!

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

Well, I'm leaving for Baltimore to see the Yankees play the O's. I hope Arod hits HR #500 while I'm there for the 3 game series (he should).

Will check back later.

Regards, Tony

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Everyone,

Despite the accusations of some on this thread, it is worth mentioning that Zane never threatened GUU with legal action. In fact, those taking the time to read the "Disclaimer and Responsibilities" on the the forum will see the following:

The views and opinions stated in the postings do not necessarily represent those of Game Used Universe, Inc. and GameUsedForum.com, Inc.

The views and opinions expressed in postings are the responsibility of the posters and not of Game Used Universe, Inc. and GameUsedForum.com, Inc.

Game Used Universe, Inc. and GameUsedForum.com, Inc. will not be held accountable for slanderous comments posted by others. Messages published on this website are the full and complete responsibility of the author.

All website users agree to these rules.

Those policies can be found through the following link:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=100

For everyone's information, the posts involving the discourse between Zane and Tony were removed pending an evaluation of the context of the exchange between the two parties as well as a discussion with the other moderators. Contrary to the opinions of the posts on this thread, we were not trying to "play favorites" or "selectively police the hobby". Such accusations are unfounded as well as unfortunate that they were made without full knowledge of the situation (something we try to avoid on this forum as a whole).

I actually have to run out to meeting as I'm typing this but will provide a more detail as to why the posts are currently not on the site when I return later today. I just didn't want this thread to continue down paths based on misinformation and unjustified speculation.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[Vintagedeputy]

I have had two dealings with Zane:

Last year, I purchased a Harold Baines game used bat from him on ebay. I sent payment and Zane notified me that the bat had previously been sold and was listed in error. He offered me numerous other bats which werent exactly what I was looking for. He refunded my money in a timely manner and offered me free shipping on a future purchase.

A few weeks ago, I hit a BIN from him on a Brian Giles uncracked bat. The bat arrived in a timely manner with the free shipping and although it did have a very minor, almost undetectable crack, I was extremely happy with it. I actually like it better with the crack. It looks better in person than it did in the photo.

I'm sorry if you had a bad dealing with him and I was a little upset about the Baines bat in the beginning but I feel that Zane did right by me and I have no complaints. I hope that you two can work things out. I think that Zane is one of the good guys in the hobby.

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Everyone,

As follow-up to my previous post, I will let everyone know I spoke with Zane about the email exchange he had with the originator of this thread. He informed me that he did take an aggressive stance in his email correspondences but that he believed his tone was consistent with the way he was being approached by the other party.

To be very honest, given the differing opinions of the parties involved regarding why the tones were taken, we do not feel it is our place or duty at this time to investigate and determine the history and intent of those private correspondences in what seems to be a private matter. Further, in the past these type of interactions on the site have usually turned into "he said, she said" matches that aren't really consistent with the objectives of the forum. Specifically, the objectives of the forum are still in line with the statement on the bottom of this page that reads "This forum was originally created by Eric Stangel as a way to bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other."

In looking at the value of this thread to collectors, we think the discussions regarding the tape on the bat and its possible implications are of certain value to the collecting community. We do not think a discussion of who said what to whom or "who started it" would be of similar value. As such, we have decided to leave the thread as it is and trust the discussion about the bat itself will be of assistance to collectors.

If anyone feels there is significant value for forum members to investigate and discuss the history of those private emails correspondences, please feel free to look into it and email me directly with your findings and why you think it would be of value to collectors to post it here. Otherwise, if you have any questions about those correspondences you can contact those involved offline and discuss things with them.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[JETEFAN]

Hi Everyone,

I would just like to put in my 2 cents regarding Zane. My son in law and I have had many dealings with Zane over the last several years, both buying and selling, he has always been very accurate with his discriptions and we have never had a problem resolving any issues. Zane has always conducted himself with class and always eager to share his knowledge on bats.

George

[nomarmauerfan]

My experience has been the opposite of Jeterfan and VERY similar to AROD's. A simple philosophy..if you get treated poorly, then stay away...I will never deal with him again. Surely, you'll find another bat of the player you're looking for. Best of luck finding a quality Mattingly bat.

Mike

[3arod13]

Well, although unsatisifed in GUU's take on this matter, I'm done.

At the most, Zane should have been warned that he, if a member of GUU, is not to make threats of lawyers for GUU members making post on this site.

To me, it's simple. I guess the rules, regulations, and mumbo jumbo always finds a way to not make any sense sometimes.

I'm done with this matter. Time to move on to more positive things.

Yanks and Arod aren't doing what I hoped they would in Baltimore, but I have one more game today.

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

I would like to ask for all to no longer add comments to this threat. Doesn't serve a positive purpose and it's only beating a dead horse.

Thanks for all comments made to this thread. I can honestly say I learned a few things through this process.

Take care and go Yanks!

Regards, Tony

[kingjammy24]

the mattingly bat mentioned in this thread was originally sold in a feb 23/24 2007 hunt auction. it sold for $650.

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=30&lot_num=823&lot_qual=

rudy.

[3arod13]

the mattingly bat mentioned in this thread was originally sold in a feb 23/24 2007 hunt auction. it sold for $650.

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=30&lot_num=823&lot_qual=

rudy.

Interesting. Although the auction link you provided doesn't mention of the bat being a BP bat, the price itself explains alot. A true gamer would have went for much more than that. I sure wish it showed who won that bat. Very interesting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Don-Mattingly-Signed-Game-Used-Bat-New-York-Yankees_W0QQitemZ200129039551QQihZ010QQcategoryZ60 596QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[byergo]

I've dealt with Zane. Great dealer, honest, has 1st tier merchandise, answers email and ships fast. I recommend him all day long. I can see why he doesn't like being bothered by annoying people who aren't even customers.

[Vintagedeputy]

I've dealt with Zane. Great dealer, honest, has 1st tier merchandise, answers email and ships fast. I recommend him all day long. I can see why he doesn't like being bothered by annoying people who aren't even customers.


uh oh, now you've done it

[3arod13]

I've dealt with Zane. Great dealer, honest, has 1st tier merchandise, answers email and ships fast. I recommend him all day long. I can see why he doesn't like being bothered by annoying people who aren't even customers.

Before you make comments like that, know the facts!

I emailed him during the auction on 3 separate occasions asking if the bat could possibly be a BP bat, as evident by the taping. He ignore all three emails. I then post the question to the forum for their thoughts. He then see's my question on GUU and threatens me.

I appreciate your loyalty to him, however, before making comments like that, know the facts!

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

uh oh, now you've done it

Unfortunately there are clicks and those who look out for each other. Many who present themselves as good guys, aren't. Many keep their mouth shut about many things they see wrong because they don't want retaliation, just like I just received.

Amazing!

Regards, Tony

[Vintagedeputy]

I can't say that I've ever seen a clique here.

[3arod13]

I've wasted to much of my time on this matter. The end!