Why minus points for proof of use???
I don't understand why Mears and Taube both minus points for signs of use when grading bats. They'll minus points for cracks and deadwood. Huh? I thought that point of grading was to prove it was actually used in games and not just an issued bat? A crack is great proof. Deadwood is proof that the bat had quite a bit of use due to the ball constantly hitting the same spot on the bat. So, why get points taken away for that? It sounds like a bat that is pretty (basically issued) with a little use, would actually grade better than a bat with more real use with cracks, deadwood, tape residue, stains, etc. I don't want a pretty bat when I buy a gamer. I want a bat that was USED by the player. It doesn't bother me as much when they take away points for missing pieces, but even missing pieces can be proof of use too. Shouldn't the bat with more use be more valuable than a bat that was maybe used? Confused.
G. Todd
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Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
Thats a very good question.I guess the question is is it really worth sending you bat not only to get autenicated but to have a grade put on the bat for a extra fee?There is a bat on Grey Flannel auction of Mcgwire that has a final grade of 7.Todd If you had to grade my bats,What would you give them.Both of my Bats have a COA From Mike S (Bats COA)Both are real and legit.I'm confused too:confused:.
First bat is a 1986 gamer and the Second bat is a 2000 gamer
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
Quote:
Originally Posted by
33bird
I don't understand why Mears and Taube both minus points for signs of use when grading bats. They'll minus points for cracks and deadwood. Huh? I thought that point of grading was to prove it was actually used in games and not just an issued bat? A crack is great proof. Deadwood is proof that the bat had quite a bit of use due to the ball constantly hitting the same spot on the bat. So, why get points taken away for that? It sounds like a bat that is pretty (basically issued) with a little use, would actually grade better than a bat with more real use with cracks, deadwood, tape residue, stains, etc. I don't want a pretty bat when I buy a gamer. I want a bat that was USED by the player. It doesn't bother me as much when they take away points for missing pieces, but even missing pieces can be proof of use too. Shouldn't the bat with more use be more valuable than a bat that was maybe used? Confused.
G. Todd
I don't understand the grading process. I've seen GUB's on ebay that were graded 10, yet the bats hardly had any use at all. Then some I've seen were graded 7/8's with plenty of use. In my opinion, the more use the better, and higher the grade. I thought the whole point about a game used item was the more use, the better.
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
I think its important that collector's really understand how Taube and MEARS grade bats. Both of their sites have an outline of what each grade means and how they arrive at a final grade. If you are a bat collector, you really should review those sites when you are looking at ( 1 ) either sending a bat in for grading, or ( 2 ) are considering buying a bat with one of their COAs. Whether you agree with how they grade, is up to you as a collector. Collecting is very personal - and a bat that I may love based on use, etc., may not be something another collector likes. Sometimes too much use with deadwood and heavy - heavy cracks, will deter someone from buying the bat.
Personally - I can see how deadwood on a bat could reduce the final grade. My perfect bat is one that is uncracked and shows tons of tar and use without any deadwood. I have good friends who will return a bat immediately if it has deadwood on it. Others believe deadwood shows that there is a lot of use in the hitting area and love it.
I think what is important as a collector is ( 1 ) understand how MEARS and Taube grade ( 2 ) make sure you get more detail on the bat, such as deadwood, cracks, tape, tar, imperfections, numbers, atributes, etc. - find out the "details behind the grade", and ( 3 ) make a determination whether the bat is acceptable to you as a collector.
I don't always agree with Taube and MEARS on grades - and sometimes there are differences in how Taube and MEARS look at the same bat - but to me, I don't even look at the "number grade" a bat is assigned. I find out what is important to me about the bat and make the final determination on whether or not I want to buy the bat.
Jim
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JimCaravello
I think its important that collector's really understand how Taube and MEARS grade bats. Both of their sites have an outline of what each grade means and how they arrive at a final grade. If you are a bat collector, you really should review those sites when you are looking at ( 1 ) either sending a bat in for grading, or ( 2 ) are considering buying a bat with one of their COAs. Whether you agree with how they grade, is up to you as a collector. Collecting is very personal - and a bat that I may love based on use, etc., may not be something another collector likes. Sometimes too much use with deadwood and heavy - heavy cracks, will deter someone from buying the bat.
Personally - I can see how deadwood on a bat could reduce the final grade. My perfect bat is one that is uncracked and shows tons of tar and use without any deadwood. I have good friends who will return a bat immediately if it has deadwood on it. Others believe deadwood shows that there is a lot of use in the hitting area and love it.
I think what is important as a collector is ( 1 ) understand how MEARS and Taube grade ( 2 ) make sure you get more detail on the bat, such as deadwood, cracks, tape, tar, imperfections, numbers, atributes, etc. - find out the "details behind the grade", and ( 3 ) make a determination whether the bat is acceptable to you as a collector.
I don't always agree with Taube and MEARS on grades - and sometimes there are differences in how Taube and MEARS look at the same bat - but to me, I don't even look at the "number grade" a bat is assigned. I find out what is important to me about the bat and make the final determination on whether or not I want to buy the bat.
Jim
What is deadwood?
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
Quote:
Originally Posted by
3arod13
What is deadwood?
From the MastroNet Reference And Price Guide For Collecting Game Used Baseball Bats by Dave Bushing and Dan Noll:
"Checking (deadwood): Refers to the grain separation, usually about the barrel, caused by repeated connections in the same area with the ball (or by dry and aging conditions). Raised wood is evidence of game use, as the wood separates due to contact with the ball on the bat's hitting surface."
Hope this helps.
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JimCaravello
I think its important that collector's really understand how Taube and MEARS grade bats. Both of their sites have an outline of what each grade means and how they arrive at a final grade. If you are a bat collector, you really should review those sites when you are looking at ( 1 ) either sending a bat in for grading, or ( 2 ) are considering buying a bat with one of their COAs. Whether you agree with how they grade, is up to you as a collector. Collecting is very personal - and a bat that I may love based on use, etc., may not be something another collector likes. Sometimes too much use with deadwood and heavy - heavy cracks, will deter someone from buying the bat.
Personally - I can see how deadwood on a bat could reduce the final grade. My perfect bat is one that is uncracked and shows tons of tar and use without any deadwood. I have good friends who will return a bat immediately if it has deadwood on it. Others believe deadwood shows that there is a lot of use in the hitting area and love it.
I think what is important as a collector is ( 1 ) understand how MEARS and Taube grade ( 2 ) make sure you get more detail on the bat, such as deadwood, cracks, tape, tar, imperfections, numbers, atributes, etc. - find out the "details behind the grade", and ( 3 ) make a determination whether the bat is acceptable to you as a collector.
I don't always agree with Taube and MEARS on grades - and sometimes there are differences in how Taube and MEARS look at the same bat - but to me, I don't even look at the "number grade" a bat is assigned. I find out what is important to me about the bat and make the final determination on whether or not I want to buy the bat.
Jim
Hi Jim,
Very well written post. I agree completely. When I contacted MEARS about grading my Cobb bat I already knew about what grade I would likely receive based on the research I did. The only way I would know this is by studying the condition of other bats as well as their grading procedures and standards.
On another note, if people loved cracked bats so much I wouldn't have so much trouble selling my cracked Steve Carlton autographed gamer from 1983. Sure a piece is missing which kinda makes displaying it a bit unpleasant, but the use is great. I can't even get a sniff at the supposed book value.
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
Deadwood is basically separation of the grain of the wood often causing a slight raising of the wood surface caused (in terms of game use) by the repeated contact of a ball on the hitting surface, usually on the barrel area. If you tap the affected portion of the surface with the knuckle of your hand, you may hear a deadened sound, thus the term deadwood.Sometimes the deadwood is very slight, with only a small portion of the hitting surface affected. At the other extreme, large portions of the hitting surface can be significantly raised. This condition is generally evidence of professional game use on a bat, however can also be caused by extended periods of dry storage conditions.
Mike Jackitout7@aol.com
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
Those McGwire bats look solid, especially the Card's bat. I wouldn't know what to grade them, but I'd be happy with both. So, it sounds like two different kinds of deadwood. 1. From repeated contact with ball. 2. From aging. I could understand getting a minus if it was from aging, but I still disagree with a minus for having deadwood from repeated contact with ball. I think Jim is correct. Just because Mears or Taube grade a certain way doesn't mean everybody agrees or has to accept the process. It all depends on what the collector is looking for. Some collectors like lots of use, where others are looking for an issued or light use gamer that is pretty. To each his own I guess.
Greg
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
I don't know if people love "cracks" on their bats. I don't. But, it is a good sign of use. I don't have a problem with cracks that lay flat. I have a Bench 1976 bicentennial bat that has great use and had an "eye sore crack" too in the mid-handle. I had Fred Lowman fix it and it's a beauty now. Another To Each His Own issue. Some cracks I'd have fixed, others I wouldn't. I like to be able to swing the bat without it sounding like it might break in two. If offered the same bat, one with a crack and one without, I would take the one without the crack. But, the point of the thread was: Why get a minus for a crack? I thought bats were graded to PROVE it was really used by said player? It sounds like they're getting graded for beauty points too, and some collectors are bothered by that-including me. Just my 2 cents.
G.Todd
Re: Why minus points for proof of use???
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MSpecht
Deadwood is basically separation of the grain of the wood often causing a slight raising of the wood surface caused (in terms of game use) by the repeated contact of a ball on the hitting surface, usually on the barrel area. If you tap the affected portion of the surface with the knuckle of your hand, you may hear a deadened sound, thus the term deadwood.Sometimes the deadwood is very slight, with only a small portion of the hitting surface affected. At the other extreme, large portions of the hitting surface can be significantly raised. This condition is generally evidence of professional game use on a bat, however can also be caused by extended periods of dry storage conditions.
Mike Jackitout7@aol.com
As usual, many thanks for the help.
