Did I deserve this?

I found this Andrew DeClercq Cavs jersey on Ebay being sold by hoop-style. Since several of the jerseys in his store are listed as game issued, I was interested to know how he was able to identify the jersey as game worn. Here's the question I sent:

Interested in this jersey. I noticed you listed some of your other jerseys as game issued, not game worn. How do you know the DeClercq is game used? What evidence of use does it show? Thanks!

Here's the response I received:

1. Mostly it's common sense.
2. As you implied, there is evident usage
3. It's Andrew Declercq a role player! Who the hell is going to bother to counterfeit a Declercq???
4. There are not enough of his jerseys from his entire career that could make you suspect the jersey companies produced any "extras" as they often do with Star Players.
5. I have COA's stating game usage (although I personally take COA's with a grain of salt, many people value them more than I do).

Am I missing something? Did my question really deserve this condescending, arrogant response? First of all, I don't think it's a matter of common sense at all. Second, I did not imply any usage, I asked about usage. Third, I never used the word counterfeit.

I would like to know how you all feel about this.

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Originally Posted by gatorcollector

I found this Andrew DeClercq Cavs jersey on Ebay being sold by hoop-style. Since several of the jerseys in his store are listed as game issued, I was interested to know how he was able to identify the jersey as game worn. Here's the question I sent:

Interested in this jersey. I noticed you listed some of your other jerseys as game issued, not game worn. How do you know the DeClercq is game used? What evidence of use does it show? Thanks!

Here's the response I received:

1. Mostly it's common sense.
2. As you implied, there is evident usage
3. It's Andrew Declercq a role player! Who the hell is going to bother to counterfeit a Declercq???
4. There are not enough of his jerseys from his entire career that could make you suspect the jersey companies produced any "extras" as they often do with Star Players.
5. I have COA's stating game usage (although I personally take COA's with a grain of salt, many people value them more than I do).

Am I missing something? Did my question really deserve this condescending, arrogant response? First of all, I don't think it's a matter of common sense at all. Second, I did not imply any usage, I asked about usage. Third, I never used the word counterfeit.

I would like to know how you all feel about this.

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No you did not deserve it you asked good, legitmate questions. Declerq being a bench player spent many games in his career dressed but not playing and if I am buying a jersey I want the guy to have done more than sit on the bench in it. Plus I believe they make extras for every player as star or not if he gets blood or something on his jersey that renders it no longer useable he is not going to stand out there shirtless. Plus alot of players have been injured in their careers and the jerseys they would have worn if healthy go unused.

you actually received a pretty seduced reponse. whenever I e-mail him, he barks to send my inquiries through his private e-mail address and not e-mail. he does come across as emotionally constipated who probably gets off on enemas.

I'd tell him to take his jersey and cram it.
In this economy sellers can't afford to be rude to potential customers....let him know it.

well from previous experiences you got off pretty easy

I cant even post some of the responses i have received from him

My advise:

DO NOT EMAIL HIM BACK...trust me it will only get worse

and second, just dont deal with him (i know other members on here that have the same philosphy)

I would also like to point out, in all his listing he mentions this....

"

If you would like a jersey in a different size or color or player than the ones you see us list, e-mail your special inquiry and we may be able to get it and set up a Special Auction on eBay for you.

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Originally Posted by worldchamps

I would also like to point out, in all his listing he mentions this....

"

If you would like a jersey in a different size or color or player than the ones you see us list, e-mail your special inquiry and we may be able to get it and set up a Special Auction on eBay for you.

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That has always bothered me too...

I also asked him a questions one time and that was the last time I asked him a questions again.
Very rude and I would never buy from him.
Just my 2 cents

Yeah probably a good idea. I had a no name gamer from a player for sale he made me a lowball offer telling me that he would pay only this much because he had to turn it into another player to make any money and that took alot of time to do.

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Originally Posted by Lokee

Yeah probably a good idea. I had a no name gamer from a player for sale he made me a lowball offer telling me that he would pay only this much because he had to turn it into another player to make any money and that took alot of time to do.

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Are you for real?

a) Dude's a tool.
b) He's a customizer.

It's like the guys on eBay that have been selling of their 'autograph collection' for years.

I had a rude response from this seller a while back as well. I agree with 34swtns, in this economy this person needs to get off his high horse.

I have heard the same about him.He has his jerseys customized and then sells them as gamers.

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Originally Posted by platinum1

Are you for real?

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NOT only that but he has started a NEW user id on ebay that he buys under. I would not be speaking out if I didn't know for 100%. Just watch out is all I can say. No can be a good time to find some deals but there are ALOT of crooks out there.

OTISMALIBU-I just have to say thats not fair to say that saying you're selling off your collection somehow means something bad.I am not sure what you were trying to say by that.But back when i used to be on ebay i was selling off my collection.It was'nt for years but thats only because i stopped going on there cause of thier rule changes.And i am still trying to sell off my autogrpah colection in other markets.Sometimes it takes a while to sell off your collection.It's all about finding the buyer for it.Yeah maybe it's because i am not looking to just give it away.:)

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Originally Posted by otismalibu

a) Dude's a tool.
b) He's a customizer.

It's like the guys on eBay that have been selling of their 'autograph collection' for years.

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I've been waiting for a post about this guy for years. I can't even rewrite some of the emails I've gotten from him.

He tried to convince me that a shirt I had for sale was over priced, by insulting me and my business, not the best way to get your way.

Anyways, I'd advise anyone looking for a good transaction with an honest seller to stay far away from this guy.

Most of his high end stuff is enticing, but you'll be kicking yourself if you have a problem with the transaction and have to deal with this jeckyl and hyde.

DX.

I hate to take the other side on this as you guys have all ganged up on and bashed this seller.But i just went on there and the seller is a top rated seller.I mean they joined in 98 and still has 100% feedbacks.So the poeple that have bought from them don't seem to have the same problem with thier items.Maybe they take it as a insult being asked questions about thier items.That you should just assume what they are selling is authticate saying they have perfect feedback.I mean you would think by now if someone who bought their item had a question about it there would be a comment to it in thier feedback and there isnt from what i read.You guys can all gang up on me like you have them.But i think they just feel they should'nt be questions about a jerseys they are selling for under $200.I understand your questions and they are good ones.That whole game issued and game worn debate.And if a person who rides the bench is still considered game worn as they did where it during a game.They just didnt play in the actual game.I am just thinking why this person might have that rude reaction to your questions.I don't know why the person can not just be nice about ansewering the questions but some people get upset and take it as you are implying that thier items are not authentic when you ask them questions about thier items.

Before the grammer police come and get me.I am sorry for the run-on sentences.I forget sometimes that you get graded on forums.

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Originally Posted by jobathenut

I hate to take the other side on this as you guys have all ganged up on and bashed this seller.But i just went on there and the seller is a top rated seller.I mean they joined in 98 and still has 100% feedbacks.So the poeple that have bought from them don't seem to have the same problem with thier items.Maybe they take it as a insult being asked questions about thier items.That you should just assume what they are selling is authticate saying they have perfect feedback.I mean you would think by now if someone who bought their item had a question about it there would be a comment to it in thier feedback and there isnt from what i read.You guys can all gang up on me like you have them.But i think they just feel they should'nt be questions about a jerseys they are selling for under $200.I understand your questions and they are good ones.That whole game issued and game worn debate.And if a person who rides the bench is still considered game worn as they did where it during a game.They just didnt play in the actual game.I am just thinking why this person might have that rude reaction to your questions.I don't know why the person can not just be nice about ansewering the questions but some people get upset and take it as you are implying that thier items are not authentic when you ask them questions about thier items.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jobathenut

I hate to take the other side on this as you guys have all ganged up on and bashed this seller.But i just went on there and the seller is a top rated seller.I mean they joined in 98 and still has 100% feedbacks.So the poeple that have bought from them don't seem to have the same problem with thier items.Maybe they take it as a insult being asked questions about thier items.That you should just assume what they are selling is authticate saying they have perfect feedback.I mean you would think by now if someone who bought their item had a question about it there would be a comment to it in thier feedback and there isnt from what i read.You guys can all gang up on me like you have them.But i think they just feel they should'nt be questions about a jerseys they are selling for under $200.I understand your questions and they are good ones.That whole game issued and game worn debate.And if a person who rides the bench is still considered game worn as they did where it during a game.They just didnt play in the actual game.I am just thinking why this person might have that rude reaction to your questions.I don't know why the person can not just be nice about ansewering the questions but some people get upset and take it as you are implying that thier items are not authentic when you ask them questions about thier items.

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Seller may take offense to the questioning but regardless what a terrible way to go about selling items. A kind response would likely not push away eventual sales and then this conversation would not even be taking place.

By his response he is not only losing that potential sale but by word of mouth he has hurt potential sales for all who read the rude response he gave to a normal email. I know I won't consider him now and I am sure others will reconsider as well....Just a terrible way to do business.

I know I won't buy from him, ever. No need to be an ass to customers who are asking a genuinely honest question.


Joba - In game used (because that's what we are talking about), if a seller gets offended by someone asking a question about an item for sale, the seller should seriously rethink the line of work he's in.

Ask anyone here that's offered me items for sale, I ask a TON of questions. It's no way a knock on the seller, I'm just thorough. I want to know, to the best of my ability, that the item I am spending my hard earned money on is legit. I don't care how "big" the seller, any seller, thinks he is in this hobby. I ask the questions that will help me feel confident in the piece I am buying. No answer? Rude answer? No sale. It's fairly simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jobathenut

I hate to take the other side on this as you guys have all ganged up on and bashed this seller.But i just went on there and the seller is a top rated seller.I mean they joined in 98 and still has 100% feedbacks.So the poeple that have bought from them don't seem to have the same problem with thier items.Maybe they take it as a insult being asked questions about thier items.That you should just assume what they are selling is authticate saying they have perfect feedback.I mean you would think by now if someone who bought their item had a question about it there would be a comment to it in thier feedback and there isnt from what i read.You guys can all gang up on me like you have them.But i think they just feel they should'nt be questions about a jerseys they are selling for under $200.I understand your questions and they are good ones.That whole game issued and game worn debate.And if a person who rides the bench is still considered game worn as they did where it during a game.They just didnt play in the actual game.I am just thinking why this person might have that rude reaction to your questions.I don't know why the person can not just be nice about ansewering the questions but some people get upset and take it as you are implying that thier items are not authentic when you ask them questions about thier items.

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The #1 rule for buying game used items is to ask questions.
If you cant answer a question with out being a jerk. Then why should
I buy from you.
It's just like buying from anywhere else. If you get rude service then you take your business somewhere else.

Guys i agree with all of you.That being rude in ansewering questions about your items is not very good customer service.Even if we are talking about on ebay.I was just saying what that person might take offense to.And that would explain why if they did respond so rude like that.Maybe they took it as "why are you questioning my item".I have had the same things happen to me when i used to be on ebay.Back when i was buying autograph items on there (and like all of you) i ask questions if i had a doubt.And sometimes i got the same rude comments back at me.And i have even got them as a seller also of autographs.I mean have'nt you guys ever got tired of someone asking questions,or maybe get upset that someone is questioning your item.I know its not what you say,but how you say it.And this seller just does'nt know how to respond correctly.And to ansewer the question-no you did'nt deserve it to me.But maybe the seller read your comments in a different way.And you guys might think this is a bad way to do buisness but seeing thier feedback they don't seem to hurting thier buisness.

Stop wasting your time typing. There's no defending that guy......at all.

Joba, this is not directed solely at you, (you've had many positive and informative posts in the past but this one just put me over the edge of the cliff I've been standing at for a few weeks now). This is directed to all the people who just can't resist the urge to find an argument where their simply is none:
I'll never understand why some people feel the need to take up a worthless cause. Don't waste your time and put yourself out there at the risk of making yourself look like an argumentative fool just for the sake of arguing with someone. You're not doing yourself any favors and you're certainly not casting the positive "I see both sides" spin on yourself that you think you are. Especially when the subject is simply cut and dry, open and shut.
Honestly, there are people on this and every forum who do nothing but troll posts looking for something to argue about, regardless of how ridiculous there view might have to be in order to meet this end. From defending crazy people's rights to spend ridiculous amounts of money on things that those of us with common sense would never do to defending someone's right to act like a total a-hole towards their customers.
You can pretend to be the "I go to bat for everybody" guy all you want, but know this......... You are defending FOOLS and therefore making yourself look foolish.
So, I'm asking the 10 per cent of you here who seem to have a tendency to do this quite often.....pick your battles. And choose them wisely. Because a lot of the battles you've been choosing result in the other 90 per cent of us rolling our eyes and shaking our heads. Ask yourself, "is this opinion that I have going to make me look stupid to most paeople if I throw it out there......have I completely thought this through.......does the view I'm about to espouse fly in the face of common sense"? If the answer to any of those questions is 'yes' regarding something you're about to type then back away from the keyboard. Save some face, your reputation and a little dignity. Don't take up lost causes, you're not helping anyone and least of all, yourself.

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OTISMALIBU-I just have to say thats not fair to say that saying you're selling off your collection somehow means something bad.

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Sure, if you're actually selling your collection. If you're just flipping stuff, that's not selling off a collection. I've seen this guy list stuff, using the same auction pics from the auction where he just bought...before he even has the jersey in hand. And he's also told me via email, that he's customized/restored many jerseys.

There was an eBay seller from the Indy area, who had multiple selling IDs and was selling of his autograph collection. He went on for years, creating new IDs and the collection never disappeared. I'd say 75% of his items were signed magazine pages. Anyone want to guess how this collection was built? The guy's hand is probably still sore.

seeing how his prices correlates with the number on the jersey, do you think he might have any Arenas game jerseys prices at $0?

I asked this Guy about A Jersey that He had on EBAY in The Past And he was just very Rude And even told me not to ask him anymore Questions about that Jersey.So I never even look at his Stuff He has up on EBAY at all.

does he deliberately post fuzzy photos to block closer inspections on the jerseys for photomatches?

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Originally Posted by jobathenut

Before the grammer police come and get me.I am sorry for the run-on sentences.I forget sometimes that you get graded on forums.

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Joba - of course, I am always cringing at grammar issues - but you, my friend have a lifetime pass with me. :D

I was interested in a couple of jersey before. He is rude. Not very friendly at all

I agree with most. This guy seems to be a pain to deal with, and like someone else said "I'd hate to deal with him if the item had issues when in hand). I can't recall ever dealing with him, but he has many jerseys that I would love to purchase. However, the combination of the blurry photos (might have worked 10 years ago but even my piece of junk cell phone takes better photos than those) and rude verbage in listings, makes me think twice. Now the comments that he has been known to alter uniforms is particularly alarming.

Hoop-style has 486 items on eBay. All of them seem basketball related.

Then he has 2 "landing nets" and I wonder are those there to catch jerseys thrown into the stands ala Gilbert Arenas?

Attachment 28982

Here is the listing if interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Landing-Net-with...item35a58ffb21

....

http://i.ebayimg.com/02/!!eNG38wCHU~...IHY3yg~~_7.JPG

HONESTLY I can understand that the guy is rude and plenty of people are.

What you guys are missing (or at least not commenting on) is he OPENLY said he strips the jerseys and changes them to more popular players.

That would be enough for me and would be MORE of a concern than him being rude.

I am really glad to find all this out. I thought he had something personally against me, but seems he is a jerk to everyone.

The thing is he does have some legit stuff, he used to be a huge player in game used, if there was a game used jersey on ebay he would buy it. There are some of his items i totally question and know are fake. And i know he is in this as a business, i see a lot of things in major auction houses that end up back in his ebay auctions...not sure if he wins or he is the consignor....but when ever i see questionable items in these auction houses i personally assume he is the consignor....ie the bad George Gervin and the bad Dr J.

34SWTNS-This is a forum for your thoughts about things.And i was just expressing mine.I know what you saying about people "just doing it to pick a fight".But that was not what i was doing.I really was trying to see that persons point of view on why they might be rude like that.I am sorry if my thoughts upset you.I was not defending them as theere is none for being rude and it was uncalled for to be like that.I am sorry that my post was the one that put you over the edge like this.:(

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Originally Posted by 34swtns

Stop wasting your time typing. There's no defending that guy......at all.

Joba, this is not directed solely at you, (you've had many positive and informative posts in the past but this one just put me over the edge of the cliff I've been standing at for a few weeks now). This is directed to all the people who just can't resist the urge to find an argument where their simply is none:
I'll never understand why some people feel the need to take up a worthless cause. Don't waste your time and put yourself out there at the risk of making yourself look like an argumentative fool just for the sake of arguing with someone. You're not doing yourself any favors and you're certainly not casting the positive "I see both sides" spin on yourself that you think you are. Especially when the subject is simply cut and dry, open and shut.
Honestly, there are people on this and every forum who do nothing but troll posts looking for something to argue about, regardless of how ridiculous there view might have to be in order to meet this end. From defending crazy people's rights to spend ridiculous amounts of money on things that those of us with common sense would never do to defending someone's right to act like a total a-hole towards their customers.
You can pretend to be the "I go to bat for everybody" guy all you want, but know this......... You are defending FOOLS and therefore making yourself look foolish.
So, I'm asking the 10 per cent of you here who seem to have a tendency to do this quite often.....pick your battles. And choose them wisely. Because a lot of the battles you've been choosing result in the other 90 per cent of us rolling our eyes and shaking our heads. Ask yourself, "is this opinion that I have going to make me look stupid to most paeople if I throw it out there......have I completely thought this through.......does the view I'm about to espouse fly in the face of common sense"? If the answer to any of those questions is 'yes' regarding something you're about to type then back away from the keyboard. Save some face, your reputation and a little dignity. Don't take up lost causes, you're not helping anyone and least of all, yourself.

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BIGTRUCK-I am honored,what did i do to deserve a lifetime pass with you?

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Originally Posted by bigtruck260

Joba - of course, I am always cringing at grammar issues - but you, my friend have a lifetime pass with me. :D

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[Ask anyone here that's offered me items for sale, I ask a TON of questions. It's no way a knock on the seller, I'm just thorough. I want to know, to the best of my ability, that the item I am spending my hard earned money on is legit. I don't care how "big" the seller, any seller, thinks he is in this hobby. I ask the questions that will help me feel confident in the piece I am buying. No answer? Rude answer? No sale. It's fairly simple.[/quote]

This is how it SHOULD be.

I have not seen this rude side of this seller in my past contacts, but it did seem like he could easily arrange ("make"?) any player's jersey I was interested in. I checked him on Ebay and saw that he had more than a few blanks listed. That alone was enough to steer me the other way.

On his reply, most people who get overly defensive when questions are doing so because they are hiding something. I see this all of the time in policework and it's one of many ways we can tell when people are lying to us.

The selling off the collection Otismalibu mentioned is similar to the stores that are having going out of business sales ever three months and are still there.

Just remember to trust your gut feeling on any jersey and any seller.

My Experience Has Been Like Most That Have Respond. Negative, Negative And More Negative. I Have Never Run Across A Guy Like Hoopstyle - I Real Piece Of Work!!

I've a got a couple good jerseys from him, but he THINKS he knows more than ANYBODY about NBA gamers because he gots lots of them. I tried to tell him that doesn't make him an expert and pissed him off. He's got bad jerseys mixed in with legit jerseys. Kindof like Blue Chip Sports. I know the Adrian Dantley Mav's jersey he has on the Bay is bad but he won't listen. Do your homework with this guy. He's way overpriced too. Just my 2 cents.

Hi guys - came across this thread - I know its been several years on this topic but has anyone been able to photomatch or authenticate a jersey that was game worn from this seller?