AMI Lawrence Taylor

[lund6771]

AMI is currently offering a Lawrence Taylor game used jersey in their auction...

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=39552

1. Within 2 minutes of looking at all years from Getty, I can't seem to match the font on the front #5

2. all of the getty pictures have a much thicker screened on paint then what AMI is offering

3. also, the AMI shirt has dazzle cloth in the shoulders when getty pics show mesh





can anyone get a copy of Lampsons personal letter or some pictures showing how this jersey can be attributed to the 83-84 season or in fact to any season?

[lund6771]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

also notice how in the collar of the AMI jersey the bands meet perfectly at the "V", but in the Getty picture they cross

[nyg44]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

I don't think the jersey is from 1983 as the Giants wore a black stripe on the sleeve. It might be from 1985. The Giants actually had two models of Champion manufactured jerseys they wore during this period. The other type used, that the players often used on warmer days in 1984 and 1985, were a "fishnet" material version where the holes, or openings, in the jersey, were much more pronounced.

[lund6771]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

That's great info on the 2 styles of jerseys!!!...is it possible that the font would vary from the fishnet to the standard mesh?...I still can't find any pictures anywhere with the #5 being screened on this way until they went
to Apex..the pic below is from a game in 85...with the amount of wear discribed in the write-up, it sounds like almost a seasons worth of use

[RKGIBSON]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

Here is LT wearing Champion mesh jerseys. The photo is from the book LT. The players numbers beside LT has more of the open mesh look. They probably change some with use and when laundered.

I would assume this is a early season, warm weather, jersey. Maybe look at the previous years and see if the skinny type font was used then. It could be a left over.

I spoke to Victor today and he said he was very comfortable with the consignor, this jersey and the history as he knows it. He said that he was going to post picture of the repairs. Also there is a zoom in feature in the upper corner that will enlarge the picture to any area for close examinaton.




Roger

[lund6771]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

roger...

that is a great pic that shows LT with a cut jersey with the fish net style of jersey....

but yet again the font is wrong....so if I understand correctly, AMI is comfortable with the jersey solely based on who the consignor is?

And what is the intention of showing a close up of the jersey?....is the font of the #5 going to get clearer with close ups?

What does Lampsons personal LOA read?

I'm getting more confused....again, is there one pic anywhere of LT or any Giant with a #5 font that matches

[RKGIBSON]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

I do know that the 5 does not match, basically the jersey style was what I was showing. I believe the early pictures of LT, he is wearing Sand Knits.

I looked some last night. The Giants seem to have worn the Champion fishnets in 83-86. All the home jersey's had red/white/red striped sleeve cuffs. The aways were blue/red/blue. The 86 jerseys had a Spider 43 patch on the chest. If anyone knows what that was for I would like to know. They may have used the fishnets after that, but I did not see any pictures. Attached is a good side of LT in a fishnet in 86. All the fishnets had double mesh shoulders. From a angle they look almost like dazzel cloth but are not. All the other teams that wore the Champion fishnets, Bill, Bucs & Redskins seem to have mesh shoulders also.

The only jerseys with that type 5 I found were 84 & 85 Pro Bowls, photos attached of LT & Carson. Does anyone know who manufactured the 84-5 Pro bowl jersey's? I think it was Sand Knit. Did Sand Knit make a mesh jersey? I know by 78 it was Rawlings who provided Pro Bowl jerseys.

With this all being said, and regardless of what we turn up, I do not believe that AMI purposely is trying to sell bogus items. They do bring a lot of great items to the market. They are relying on authenticators and team paperwork to validate items. I think we all agree, the authenticators are not doing their job very well. I have been a customer of AMI since the very first auction and have spent quite a bit of money with them. I have had a few issues in which I have returned items, with proof that that I believe they are not as represented. He has always returned my money. Let's play this thing out and see what we can find.

Roger

[gridman80]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

spider patch is a memorial for Giants DB Spider Lockhart who died that year. they had a home and road version of the patch

[mvandor]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

There can be no question in the mind of any objective, thinking individual that many auction houses do hide behind the authenticators, and I use that term loosely when referring to the likes of Mr. Lampson, or the wonderful 100% Authentic "team". That's exactly why a Lou Lampson was created, why his name was virtually branded by conscious effort, and why he continues to produce the volume he does. The day he no longer gets huge auction house contracts is the day he finds another line of work.

All to create "plausible deniability" for these "auction houses" to facilitate volume sales of fraudulent items as the honest market is significantly smaller and therefore far less lucrative.

As for photo matching, the farther back the item goes the less material can be turned up on Getty or other photo sources to help prove an item false, or at least identify a style match. Such is the case with this jersey. Regrettably, the limited resources make it harder to document challenges and to dispute items with some weight.

I do believe until the FBI truly cracks down on the industry, this wheel will continue to turn making this hobby a very treacherous mine field to navigate.

[RKGIBSON]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

I in no way condone the sale, or even the listing of items that are known to be phony. It would be nice if some auction house gave a 100% money back guarantee if their item was proved to be not as represented, forever. Instead they have a "absolutely no return policy". I do ot do bsiness with those houses. I returned a item to another large auction house with proof, and they only gave me a credit instead of a refund. I held my nose and bought another item from them but will not do business with them anymore.

I am a black and white guy. Things are real or they are not. If this item proves beyond a doubt to be fake, then it should be removed. I saw a Ray Lewis jersey that I sent back, when I proved it was a absolute fake, and it just showed up at another auction hose with the same authenicators letter. Some unsuspecting person paid good money for it. The auction house did what they could by refunding me and returning it to the "BIG NAME" consignor, who they did not question about the Lewis. He turns around and sends it to another house to knowingly dump it. That is the problem. People that make thing and try to pass them off using auction houses to insulate them from the fire.

This has got a little off the LT jersey. I am still looking. I agree with MVandor that it is hard to find pictures of older items. Let do the work and see where this goes.

Roger

[lund6771]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

Roger...

You state "Let's do the work and see where it goes"....what's dissappointig is that this is the job of the 100% team...what are THEY basing their reserach on when authenticating an item like this LT?..Lampsons personal letter?....please, I just had breakfest

Getty is no secret to anyone...within 2 minutes of research one can see that there is not ONE picture of LT or any Giant wearing a jersey with a font like this on the # 5

[CollectGU]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

Whatever your thoughts might be Dave....don't change the fact that there has yet been one picture that matches the AMI LT jersey, which has tons of wear...should I waste more of my time & $ with videos again?...I saw how productive it was on the Marino jersey

Anyhow there are many inconsistancies listed in previous posts and nothing has been addressed...

I'm also curious what these personal letters from Lampson read....are they jerseys that he personally is consigning?...if so, than this is all starting to make sence..

also does Victor realize that much of his issues stem from being associated with a cancer like Lampson?...how can his company be taken seriously when they employ, in my opinion, the biggest crook that has ever been involved in this hobby

Pete,

This jersey was also authenticated by MEARS receiving an A8 grade with minus 2 for it being custom cut above the tag line (but that was trait so i don't know why they would subtract for that?). How many pictures of LT do you have - 10 maybe from that time frame? And because it doen't match that tiny exemplar you say its no good? No, I think you say it's no good because you have an issue with the AMI as I pointed out earlier...I see no word on the Stoyanovich, so your smoke screen statement of "I'm out to help the collecting community" is very transparent because if this were true you would have reorted back to us on that. You are only out to get AMI that is painfully obvious. I'm sick of going back and forth with you on this.

Regards,

Dave
(aka "the clown")

[RobSteinmetz]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

Guys,

Let's knock off the back and forth jabs and continue researching this jersey before we start throwing around accusations. Two minutes of searching on Getty Images does not mean that this jersey is automatically bad. I don't claim to be a football jersey expert, but I would imagine that it is possible that LT wore multiple jerseys in any given game during the time period in which this jersey could have been worn. I am not defending AMI, Lampson, or the manner in which this jersey was authenticated, but you can't bash this jersey based solely on a half dozen images on Getty. Keep up the solid research...

Best,

Rob

[RobSteinmetz]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

Guys,

If you want to discuss the LT jersey in this thread, that's fine. I'm going to delete these back and forth posts if they don't address the specifics of this jersey. If you would like to discuss your issues offline, contact one another by phone or email.

Thanks,

Rob

[lund6771]

Re: AMI Lawrence Taylor

Besides the video collection...anyone can go to the their local Barnes & Noble and find a book called "56" where there are literally hundreds of pics of LT and NOT ONE match this jersey....

AGAIN...what is the basis for this authentication and personal letter?