Response to Mr. Joel Alpert

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Everyone,

I was recently alerted to a post made by Joel Alpert on another forum where he accused me of not adhering to GUU forum rules as an administrator. He claimed it was due to what he perceived as a biased toward him based on his affiliation with mears. While part of me thinks the claim is so ridiculous it's not worth responding to, I also think it would help to provide all the facts in the situation in case someone happens to run across the accusation.

The issue derived from a post made by a GUU forum member asking a question on the forum about the tagging of a jersey being sold by Mr. Alpert without contacting Mr. Alpert first. The GUU rule in this regard is as follows:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

While the moderators of this forum constantly work to enforce this rule (you can search the number of posts we make on this topic), in this instance we felt it ill-advised to ask the poster to contact the seller directly (the "When possible" part of the rule). The reason we felt that way was because the poster received an email from Mr. Alpert dated March 29, 2007 (a little over two months before the post) where Mr. Alpert issued the following directive (I have used asterisks as filters because we do not believe in or allow foul language on the site):

"F**k off. Don't ever email me again or you'll find another letter from
a legal office at your door.

You are a piece of s**t, just remember I told you that. Go play games with the world on the GUU forum and I'll be fine with my life.

Got it?

P**s off."

I explained to Mr. Alpert that we were not going to force someone to email him after receiving such a threat and that we would monitor any future posts to make sure the poster did not attempt any malice toward him. In fact, here is an excerpt from an email I sent to Mr. Alpert on June 18, 2007 which elaborates on this point:

"In addition, I did want to let you know that your assumptions regarding any attempts to discredit you or mears are simply not true. I know your relationship with [name omitted] is an emotional one but I honestly don't think it is difficult to see why anyone who received the email below from you would not want to email you. I understand you stated it is your right to threaten and swear at [name omitted] but please realize that those things can't simply be dismissed when it is convenient. Your relationship with [name omitted] is really none of my business but I would strongly suggest considering the implications of any threats before you make them in the future.

I will also keep an eye on future posts made by [name omitted] to make sure they are not attempted with any form of malice toward you. While I stated I understand his reluctance to email you given the situation that certainly does not give him license to say whatever he wants about you either. I just want you to know this is nothing personal and we are not trying to sabotage anyone as you suggest."

Again, while I almost hate to even respond to such an unfounded claim, I thought it would help to let everyone know the circumstances behind the situation in case anyone had any questions.

Sincerely,
Chris

[bigtruck260]

This is a gentleman's hobby. It is about professionalism...and research (which, I might add is half of the fun). Chris - that is about as professional as it gets.

Dave

[bigtime59]

I have never been happy with the rule about contacting people offering questionable items for exactly this reason. Far too often, you wind up in fights with people who sell fake stuff for a living.
And I haven't missed Joel's former "contributions" to this forum...not one little bit.

[camarokids]

I never contact a seller first , unless I am certain an item is fake . I always post in a form of a question .

About two weeks ago a seller on ebay was offering a fascimilie autograph 1998 Devil Rays ball . The seller was offering as a legit signed team ball . I did not even bother to post here , it was so obvious . The seller told me how he received the ball from a groundskeeper . I offered to email pics of real signed balls from 1998 . Never heard back from the seller . Item never received any bids...................

[ChrisCavalier]

I have never been happy with the rule about contacting people offering questionable items for exactly this reason. Far too often, you wind up in fights with people who sell fake stuff for a living.

Hello Mark,

Regarding the quote above, while I understand your concerns, we really do believe in the rule about contacting sellers and we feel strongly that it needs to be followed. Given the fact that making posts about items here, whether we intend it to or not, has the potential to reflect on a seller's reputation and livelihood, we really need to insist that sellers be given the opportunity to respond to members questions first before postings are made on the forum. While there may be some sellers who don't care to respond, we can't dismiss the fact that there may be others who may be simply misinformed about items or simply made an honest mistake (I don't know anyone, myself included, who hasn't made an honest mistake at one time or another). In situations like that, we believe honest sellers who may be misinformed deserve the opportunity to respond to concerns about their items before a public post is made about an item.

Net, although there may be instances where sellers do not respond favorably to requests, we will continue to enforce the rule going forward. This situation was unique in that a threat was made in writing which is why we felt we couldn't enforce the rule. However, that was truly an exception to the norm. Hopefully, as more and more sellers become aware of the fact that collectors now have a respected venue to voice concerns about items if they don't respond to questions themselves, more and more sellers will feel compelled to respond directly.

Sincerely,
Chris

[bigtruck260]

Chris -

Should we notify them of the thread as well? If they are informed that a thread has been started about their item, they may be more likely to respond here.

Dave

[ChrisCavalier]

Chris -

Should we notify them of the thread as well? If they are informed that a thread has been started about their item, they may be more likely to respond here.

Dave

Hello Dave,

We were thinking what we could do to help in the process would be to post a template with verbiage that members could simply cut and paste into an email to send to sellers prior to making a post on the forum. That way, there would be consistency in terms of what is communicated to sellers regarding our policy and it would make it very easy for our members to send the email. It would also let sellers know our members are being required to contact them first so our members don't need to personally justify why they are contacting them.

We are working on shipping auction items today but will try to post something over the next day or two to simply things for everyone.

Please let me know if that makes sense.

Sincerely,
Chris

[bigtruck260]

Hello Dave,

We were thinking what we could do to help in the process would be to post a template with verbiage that members could simply cut and paste into an email to send to sellers prior to making a post on the forum. That way, there would be consistency in terms of what is communicated to sellers regarding our policy and it would make it very easy for our members to send the email. It would also let sellers know our members are being required to contact them first so our members don't need to personally justify why they are contacting them.

We are working on shipping auction items today but will try to post something over the next day or two to simply things for everyone.

Please let me know if that makes sense.

Sincerely,
Chris

Yes. Perfect sense.

I am one of those that used to contact sellers and ask them specific questions reagarding the product they were selling...and after being called every name in the book, I began looking for outside help - -which led me to Jeff Scott, and eventually this forum. It is satisfying knowing that my questions about certain items are shared by other members in this forum. Also, it benefits me to listen to other "angles" presented by my peers on the board. I think what you are doing is noble - and hopefully the response from sellers will be positive...

Regards,

Dave

[RobSteinmetz]

Guys,

There's really no point in the editorial comments about Joel. Most of us are aware of the history, and those who aren't can learn about it pretty quickly by utilizing the forum's search function. I think we take something positive from this unfortunate situation and continue to dialog about how to best contact sellers and bring those issues to the forum. Personally, I like the idea of creating a "template" email to send sellers who have questionable items (see Chris' previous post). Let's try to keep this thread moving in a positive direction.

Thanks.

Rob

[RKGIBSON]

I personally do not see anything wrong with questioning any item on this forum without asking the owner. Lets face it, many of the seller have no idea about fine points of some of the things they are selling, and do not care. Many times by the time the grace period has past for a response, the auction is about over and there is no time for members to do research.

If it is worded like, "give me your thought on the nameplate on this jersey" or "has anyone seen this before", is not a attack on anyone or thing. It's a question. If it is worded, "another bogus Elway", or "Another Lampson mistake" thats a different story.

Please define exactly what is OK.

Roger