Fake Auto Authentication by JSA

[T. VO]

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=9AAD5BF8A85286C15DB83F50805F91EC ?contentId=4976451&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

[thomecollector]

Very interesting. Doesn't say much about JSA.........I never cease to be amazed.

[mvandor]

First, when they show the fake and real sigs side-by-side they are hard to tell apart. Their reporter has some talent for forgery. Second, Sal Bando was at that show signing, and is not a high value signature anyway, especially on an 8x10 photo. I'm sure JSA's authenticator, knowing Bando was there, erred in presuming the reporter just came with it from the signing floor, glanced at it briefly, and passed it because of these collective factors.

No excuse, just an explanation.

[David]

Nothing against Sal Bando and not an excuse for JSA, but:

Who, beyond this television reporter, would forge a Sal Bando autograph, and who would pay $$ for certification on a Bando autograph.

Again, no excuse for JSA, but this was a rather bizarre test case.

[T. VO]

First, when they show the fake and real sigs side-by-side they are hard to tell apart. Their reporter has some talent for forgery. Second, Sal Bando was at that show signing, and is not a high value signature anyway, especially on an 8x10 photo. I'm sure JSA's authenticator, knowing Bando was there, erred in presuming the reporter just came with it from the signing floor, glanced at it briefly, and passed it because of these collective factors.

No excuse, just an explanation.

I agree with all points above.

Should also mention that JSA has joined up with BGS (card grading service) to authenticate autographed cards. Collectors now aren't to please with this video.. haha.

[bradleysupplies]

This is one of my 'soapbox' topics...

I do not believe in any of the 3rd 'authentication' companies when it comes to autographs. What customers are paying for is the opinion of someone with limited training.

Unfortunately, the volume of autographs accepted by these companies for authentication do not allow for scientifically breaking down each signature like they should, and as law enforcement agencies (FBI) do. The authenticators are not handwriting experts. Even at that, you are paying for a scientifically backed opinion, but not necessarily a 'fact'.

Bottom line is my strong belief that the hobby should get away from the idea of a "certificate of authenticity" and rather move towards a "Certificate of Opinion". The one exception would be certificates of authenticity issued at the time of signing, as what UDA, Tri-Star, Mounted Memories, etc. provide.

As a hobby, we given the 'authenticators' the role of 'God'; determining if a signature is real or not - hardly the way I want to build my collection.

Obviously it helps to have their opinion if it is a signature that you are unfamiliar with, but you have to remember it is just that - an opinion. They all make mistakes - even the acclaimed James Spence and Co. have had their share of incorrect declarations of authenticity, as evidenced by the news story.

As our very own Chris Cavalier from GUU has stated, it is all about probability. If getting an autograph 'authenticated' increases the probability it is authentic, take that information, combine it with other factors, and make an education decision for yourself.


Joel

[joelsabi]

This is one of my 'soapbox' topics...

I do not believe in any of the 3rd 'authentication' companies when it comes to autographs. What customers are paying for is the opinion of someone with limited training. Joel

I have to agree that the qualification of these specialist is a joke. I only believe it if these companies hired handwriting specialists. when i had my clemente baseball authenticated, the person who was a specialist had a book with samples of clementes signature at different times of his life, look at the baseball for the type of ball , etc. This was before the big autograph boom and they didnt have them companies around.

[bscott]

interesting "news" segment. good "info-tainment."

I agree the "sting" was bathed in ridiculousness. Sal Bando?
No offense to Sal, but authenticating his autograph is like authenticating a fart. No need to prove it. I'll take your word for it.

And, in this video, that's exactly what is shown: the "authenticator" taking the woman's word that she just got Sal Bando's sig at the show. "Ah, I trust you," the authenticator says.

Big whoop.

But since this is the Game Used Forum and not the aAutograph Forum, I pose this:

How would the tv segement have looked if the reporter's objective was to test a game used authentication service?

And what would be your hypothetical reaction to the realization that even "game use" can be faked to some extent?

Food for thought.

-bscott

[flaco1801]

i think jsa deserves what they got. they charged 40 dollars for 5 seconds of work? if they were a lil more diligent this would not have happenened. they are providing (for money) exactly what the customer wants(authentication). everybody is happy.

[bigtruck260]

Authenticating a fart...

OK - here is my opinion:

I do not like the idea of paying more for a third party authenticator. I have been collecting signed Cardinals items forever, and I am an "expert" - right?
However, on higher dollar items, it benefits me as a seller to have a PSA or JSA sticker on them (sorry GAI).
Both of the above companies have made grave errors on items that I had signed in person by star athletes. They rejected my items and sent me a letter of non-authenticity...want to talk about being enraged at a parcel? Each one has no problem taking my $50 plus shipping both ways.

I agree with the poor setup - Sal Bando at an show where he is signing?

However, if you are paying for someone to scrutinize (she had a cert card, with an assigned number - NOT the basic cert sticker) your item, it needs to be looked at. A professional - or a least a trained individual who has looked at examples (that should be sitting in a binder within reach), or EVEN OTHER SIGNATURES FROM BANDO AT THE SAME SHOW might have been able to tell the difference.
Regardless, I do not send away for certs on items that I am 100% positive are true. I may send one away to get the "second opinion" because with a JSA cert I can get $200 or more for a Pujols ball. I just sold one without a cert for $100.
It's a dichotomy. The average collector wants and needs a cert to feel better about their purchase...it lessens the effects of buyer's remorse.
These are the same folks that 10 years ago were satisfied with a basic COA from a no-name company.

Dave