Current GFC Auction items with "light use"

[clinton2828]

I called grey flannel this past week and spoke to a gentleman named TJ who I posed several questions to about football items I had interest in. Whenever I asked him to expand in detail the use on a jersey I had interest in he simply stated that if you are looking for team repairs or hits marks it would say it in the description , if not the jerseys would have “light use”. When I moved to ask about the source or consigner I got the same old “impeccable source”, “someone who consigned before”, punch line.


I am tired of football jersey in particular passing auction house inspection with “light use”. I can’t see how any rational person would pass a running backs jersey like GFC did with the Tomlinson and LJ jersey with “light use”. The broad statements and claims auction houses like GFC use I think are unprofessional and show a lack of respect for the buyer and rather a stand alone interest in there profit levels alone. It also show a lack to the attention to detail in informing there customers. It seems the less they know the better with that type of approach to accepting items with light or really no use and then stating in a COA “ jersey shows game use with no altercation of any kind”.

Any other thoughts on the lack of information it seems GFC is offering there customers and there unwillingness it seems to only accept jerseys especially football jerseys with such light to no use from what I can see in the pictures.

[mvandor]

I agree. I've been here just long enough to develop insight on which auction houses make a living off volume sales of fraudulent items and which ones only have a small number slipping through. I'm sure others if we made a list would have a similar list to mine. Unfortunately, thems that runs this place would never allow posting of such a list and thems with money made illicitly would use some of it to sue everyone involved.

I'm personally crossing my fingers that the FBI finds time from chasing terrorists to enforce some of our other laws, and that they start bringing down this industry's greatest crooks.

[clinton2828]

why cant we just start a thread that lists football jerseys especially players who play positions who would never just have "light" to "no" use on them. not to say they are not real but to get an idea of how many football jerseys gfc is offering with just light use and maybe even asking them why they feel so comfortable listing soooo many of there football items with just light use and why when you watch a game on tv and look at pics on gettyimages almost every players jersey shows definite use on it?

[RKGIBSON]

Clinton,

I think there is a couple of things that we forum members can do.

I started a thread to show NFL jerseys. Only 3 members posted pictures. This is exactly why I started it so member can get a idea of what real game use and modifications look like. No participation translates to me that there is no interest here. I communicate privately with several members, on a regular basis, about items and trade info. I think the reason is, this is such a hot topic and it is easier to not use the forum due to the rules. I do agree that some rules must exist. Honest debate on any item is a good thing for everyone, including auction houses.

Next, participate in the jersey data base. I put about 20 good documented items in.I could put on 50 more. Why should I if no one else cares. I put a couple on lately due to the fact I saw a couple of bogus pieces in auctions. I venture to say that less than 10 members submitted football items.

Football collectors seem to just stand on the side and wait for everyone else to do something. The baseball collector on this forum do a good job of posting pictures and info. It is up to us as collectors to educate each other. From my point of view, the more info out there the better. We may educate the dishonest but in reality it makes it harder to pass of a frudulent piece. When no one buys the crap anymore it may stop.

Roger

[lund6771]

punter, kicker, & the holder for the kicker get my vote for no wear

even QB jerseys should show wear...I have a Rice niners shirt that was worn in 3 games and it has 14 repairs....lineman have their hands all over each other all game...

I don't buy any of this light use stuff and it is easy to tell fake wear if you've seen enough real jerseys

[clinton2828]

all very good points all around. and the proof is in the final price realized on these items. if you look at almost every single jesey in nfl auction you can see how much the price they get FAR exceeds the prices of similar jerseys in auction house with any use on it. if you look at the final prices of gfc's last auction on the close prices of many football jerseys i think it shows a real lack of confidence on the buyers end.

[RKGIBSON]

Clinton,

Your right. The bottom line is, collectors want real stuff and it is worth it to pay more for the satisfaction. You can buy with confidence from the NFL.

This can also be done through auction houses. They need to provide enough info for collectors to be comfortable and understand exactly what they are buying. I think right now, AMI does the best job there by posting pictures of paperwork, repairs and gives a better description.

I speak to Rich at Grey Flannel during most every auction and have done business with him for years. I have always found him to be honest with me. If I need it, he will FedX the item to me, at my cost, for examination. This I'm sure has come from the long time relationship and trust.

He has several items, in this auction, that I am very interested in, and will try to buy. He understands what I want as a collector and actually tells me I would not be happy with the use, or we do not know the history so this item is probably not for you. I think there are guys who like nice jerseys and do not care. I like well used and documented jerseys. He understands that up front. I have found the best policy with any auction house, or person, when buying game used is to ask enough question to be comfortable. God knows, I have learned the hard way.

Roger

[scottanservitz]

I think Roger is totally correct about collectors shying from participating about a lot of the football items coming up for auction. I collect only baseball bats and football jerseys. If I need info on a bat I have my BATS book I bought at this years National to reference. I can also ask Jim, Mike or some of the other knowledgable collectors out there for help. I usually get a response rather quickly. Now when I need info about a jersey I can check the tagging on Jim Yackel's site. After that I really don't know where to go. I have asked Roger and he has helped me make an educated decision on one occassion. After Roger, I don't know where to go. I have very few pieces to reference. I am very picky where and who I would buy from. There are only a few places a collector can go to get good pieces. There are way too many questionable items out there. Documentation is very important. But these are also only available from the NFL or buying from teams directly. These jerseys sell for a ton of money for a reason. When I look at a game used NFL jersey and it looks almost new, the Red Flags fly to me. I played football from pee wee to college. It is a violent sport. Equipment gets hammered. When you find items that look like they have been through a dog fight, this is a good sign to start with. But it goes so much further than that. We need to help with sharing info from people that are trustworthy and those that are suspicious. This is a very expensive hobby. I don't want to get taken! To me in this hobby there is nothing more rewarding than holding a piece of history that I am comfortable with in knowing it is authentic. Roger's collection is something I am really impressed with. Not only with what he has, but also the time and effort he takes in choosing what he buys. I try to follow his path, albeit at a much slower pace. When we have knowledge in this area we need to help out as much as we can. Just my two cents.
Scott

[G1X]

It's been said before in this Forum, but it bears repeating. Break the cycle of dependency. Take the time to put together a reference library of photos, videos, books, programs, yearbooks, magazines, cards, etc., etc., etc. of the items you collect. There is much, much more to research than looking at Getty Images. For the price of a couple of jerseys and some serious time spent searching, you should be able to build a decent library within a few years. It will pay off handsomely and help make you an expert at what you collect!

Find others in this hobby who collect the same or similar items and network with them. Contacts will mushroom quickly. Stay in touch with these contacts as nuggets of knowledge will be picked up in almost every conversation. There are a lot of folks out there who are more than eager to share their knowledge with you on the items they collect. Many of these folks, for a variety of reasons, are more willing to communicate privately than share information in public arenas such as this Forum. Start networking now to find these folks.

Visit a dealer if you ever have the chance, especially after they have made a bulk buy. Some of the most educational experiences for me have been making a few bulk buys from teams over the years, and visiting other dealers such as the late-Dick Dobbins and Hartel Sports to observe their inventory first-hand. Although only a few dealers now attend shows, it is still worth the money to make a trip to The National to observe Pro-Am Sports (Wayne Otto) extensive inventory and Hartel Sports. Holding a jersey in hand and studying it in person is much more educational than simply looking at a few photos of a jersey on your favorite dealer's website.

Whenever someone asks me what is the most valuable item in my collection, I tell them that it is my reference library and collecting buddies within the hobby. Maybe a lot of collectors just don't have the time for all of this, but unless you do, it will be difficult to ever feel truly confident in purchasing the items that you collect.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[lund6771]

I agree 110% with what Mark stated...there is a tremendous amount of knowledge to learn out there...pre-internet it was a learning a bit here and there from the "experts...but with technology today, it has taken a lot of the science out of it...except for seeing the actual tagging that is hidden underneath

Getty is just the tip of the iceberg...it gives a few random pics here and there, but with due diligence, you can photo/video match anything you want to out there...I'm spaeaking mostly about footbal because with football it really is easy...that is why it so so frustrating for me to see the auction houses continously sell bad stuff...basketball has to be the hardest

why pay an aunthenticator fpr their opinion when they don't care and don't do a good job?...I'm not exqaggerating that within minutes & creativity a collector can be going in the right direction to do ther own authentication