Clemens Jersey: Any Thoughts??

[suave1477]

lee your on a good way to learning how to try to get a better understanding of the real jerseys and fake ones, but to add to your thoughts you also want to check the measurements of a players jerseys from when they first started to when they ended. Although weight on a player can change go up or down it usually will be within the same or progress upwards over years as normal weight gain takes a toll on a humans age. I have seen jerseys for my favorite player go from a 42 chest to a 50 but you can also see the progression over the years. Another way to tell is also by comparison of the players teamates from that year. Another thing to look for is the patches are they correct with that jersey or with that year and the measurements of the letters and/or numbers. Just some helpful advice!!!!

[kingjammy24]

Lee:

'question 1': your wash codes are incorrect. here:

6200 - retail jerseys
0062 - 'pro' jerseys
6500 - retail bp jerseys
0065 - 'pro' bp jerseys

I've never heard of a '0060' wash code. The wash codes are a nice start but, as with many things, don't take them as gospel. Some legit game-worn jerseys have been found with the 6200 code, while some '0062' coded jerseys have found their way to retail stores. For more reading on the subject, try Rob Steinmetz's site www.authenticgamers.com .
( http://www.authenticgamers.com/water....10.18.04.html )
Specifically, the "Watercooler" section:
http://www.authenticgamers.com/watercooler.html

Based on a wash code alone, you shouldn't cease analyzing a jersey.

'question 2' - The Clemens signature does look horribly off. But is it even supposed to be Clemens' signature? I don't know. I don't know whose signature that's supposed to be.

'question 3' - ask for pics of the front, back, and a close-up of the tagging. perhaps a close-up of the numbers and name on the back.
here's a brief starter list of things to look for:
- are the fonts (letters & numbers) correct? (size, style, stitching, material, arch, placement, etc).
- is there supposed to be a nameplate or not?
- is the size correct?
- is the manufacturer correct?
- is the style of manufacturer tagging correct? (I've posted primers on Wilson, Russell, and Rawlings tagging on here showing various revisions over the years).
- is the set/year/etc tagging correct? style-wise? is it suppose to have flag tag, strip tag, etc? is the font on the tagging correct?
- is the style of the jersey correct for the year & team?
- is it missing any patches/memorial bands? if so, why? is there physical evidence that there these once existed and were removed?
- do any patches/memorial bands match the year of the jersey and time
that the player played for the team in that style of jersey?
(I once saw a jersey with a 1994 patch that was worn only for one year
and a 1997 patch that was worn only for one year. I guess the forger
loved patches)
- has been a name and/or number change (or evidence of one)?
- are there holes around the nameplate possibly implying someone removed a previous nameplate?
- can you see 'ghost stitching' indicating a name/number change?
- does the color and condition of the nameplate match the color and condition of the jersey?
- does the color and condition of the name and all numbers match the color and condition of the team script on the front? (if it's supposed to)
- is there velcro in between the buttons?
- what's the provenance?
- are the buttons indicative of a retail jersey or are they 'pro jersey' style buttons?
- is it a nylon or polyester jersey?/is the material correct?
- what sort of wear does it show?
- is the wear realistic for the amount of time worn?
- what sort of use does it show?
- is the use realistic for the player/position/amount of time worn?
- check team roster to make sure the player actually played for the team
during the specific timeframe
- was the jersey re-used from a previous year and/or previous player?
- do the numbers show puckering? broken threads?
- does the tagging show wear?
- does the actual size of the jersey match the size indicated on the size tag?
- can you stylematch the jersey?
- can you possibly photomatch it?
- how does it compare to other exemplars of both the team and the specific player?
- should there be lining anywhere inside the jersey?
- does the jersey exhibit known player preferences such as removing the tags, cutting the bottom of the tail, etc?

Once you've answered those questions, I'd say you're off to a decent start. There are additional processes and things I'd check but that's a decent list to start with.

If I'd offer one piece of advice, I'd say don't just stop because you think you've discovered one questionable aspect. Keep going. Keep analyzing the jersey until you've exhausted every possible aspect and your eyeballs are ready to fall out. Then go back and do it again the next day to see if there's anything you've missed or misinterpreted. You seemed to discover what you thought was an incorrect wash tag or bad signature and decided that was enough to decide that the jersey was bad. I'd advise against this for various reasons. Analyze the jersey until there isn't a single aspect left.

Start building a photo library of styles and tagging and action photos.
Use this library as a reference. Purchase Bill Henderson's guide. Acquire other resources such as yearbooks, programs, and baseball cards which show photos uniforms. Compare these game photos to photos of the jersey. Look at every single inch of the jersey. You'll notice things you never noticed before.

Rudy.

[DonFan23]

The strip on the purported Clemens jersey looks similar to the Posada and Mattingly jerseys discussed on this thread:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...read.php?t=712

And, coincidentally, the seller looks similar as well.



R.J. Hinners

Collector of Don Mattingly and other Yankee game-used items.

[lee pdx]

Rudy & Suave:

Thanks for your posts & the lenghty tutorial. Both are appreciated (especially the 6200 v. 0062- guess I just had that one assbackwards...).

-Lee

[cohibasmoker]

Check again. The jersey sold via Buy It Now.

[baltos]

That looks like the autograph of Dale Sveum. He played for the Yankees in 1998.

I think he wore #17 for most of the season, but might have started with #22.

I know that Homer Bush wore #22 for part of 1998.