Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

[suave1477]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

You know I have to stick my 2 cents in.

I personally beleive Roger Maris should keep the Home Run Record untill someone who hasn't taken steroids beats it. Just my opinion. I will not mention names but for anyone who has broken Roger Maris's record up until now should have an asteric placed next to there record.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

I personally beleive Roger Maris should keep the Home Run Record untill someone who hasn't taken steroids beats it. Just my opinion. I will not mention names but for anyone who has broken Roger Maris's record up until now should have an asteric placed next to there record.

Thanks for the laugh, I really needed one.

I remember a great article by Rick Tellander called, "The Record That Almost Broke Him" about how baseball mentally ruined Roger Maris because of that asterisk.

Geez, a season is a season was later deemed the correct result and the asterisk was removed.

[suave1477]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Hello Trsent hope you got the info on strawberry.

As far as the homerun record Roger should have never gottten the asteric. I mean when babe ruth broke the record he did it in more games then the guy who set it before him. So if that was the case there should have been an asteric next to ruth's record right?

[cjosefy]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

How did anyone cheat?

Using Steroids was not illegal by the rules of baseball.

Wagering on baseball was illegal by the rules of baseball.

Now it is illegal to use Steroids by the rules of baseball. For over 125 years it was not illegal - SO PER EX POST FACTO WHAT CRIME MAY HAVE BEEN COMMITTED?

<snip>

HE DIDN'T BREAK ANY RULES OF THE GAME, WHICH HAS IT'S OWN RULEBOOK.

Your reasoning is ridiculous. Just because steroid use wasn't explicitly prohibited doesn't mean that it is then perfectly reasonable to have used them, or that those who did use them (including Barry Bonds, who admitted use in grand jury testimony) should be free from blame.

Yes, the constitution prohibits ex post facto laws, but as you pointed out, this is the game of baseball which has its own rule book, so we can assume that in applying blame retroactively to players, we as fans and the entity of Major League Baseball do not need to follow that document.

Maybe we should instead look at the philosophy of common sense. In baseball terms, doctoring the ball or juicing the bat has been against the rules for decades, but juicing yourself is ok? In the wider realm of sports, the Olympics have banned steroids for a long time, but using them in other athletic arenas is ok?

I hope you really don't subscribe to the idea that doing something that is widely considered by most thinking individuals to be morally, ethically, and physically wrong is nevertheless perfectly fine because a tiny booklet of baseball rules didn't explicitly tell them no.

Quit hiding behind technicalities, and condemn these men for doing something that was wrong. I don't care about the rule book, the record book, or the price of a Raffy bat, but at least I can say that what they did was wrong and that it severely damaged baseball.

Against the rules? No. Against the spirit of the game (and this is the more important question). Yes

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Since nobody else brought this up, i will:

When do we kick Gaylord Perry out of the game and the HOF? And who was that Astro that doctored the ball, Mike Scott?

Do we erase the stats for Sosa and Belle and all the other corked bat guys, too?

And PS: Joe Jackson was guilty, he took the money!! Why doesn't anyone ever cry about the 3rd baseman, what was his name, Weaver? The one who is still banned because he didn't tattletale on his teammates, but was never involved in the fix?

Ken

[yanks12025]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Ok Your right Roger maris did have 8 more days then babe ruth. So then barry bonds records should be taken away because he had more time then babe ruth.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

When do we kick Gaylord Perry out of the game and the HOF? And who was that Astro that doctored the ball, Mike Scott?

Do we erase the stats for Sosa and Belle and all the other corked bat guys, too?

And PS: Joe Jackson was guilty, he took the money!! Why doesn't anyone ever cry about the 3rd baseman, what was his name, Weaver? The one who is still banned because he didn't tattletale on his teammates, but was never involved in the fix?

Yup, Buck Weaver really got the shaft.

Thanks for your comments, they are less biased than the comments posted above yours.

People want to live in the USA but they want to dictate the law as it was in 1980s Russia. Nice double standards.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Ok Your right Roger maris did have 8 more days then babe ruth. So then barry bonds records should be taken away because he had more time then babe ruth.

Young man, since you told us that you are young and that you and your father go to auctions to buy memorabilia together, maybe you should consider this:

Maybe you and your father should post on this forum together because it appears you post all by yourself.

[bigtime59]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Joel:
Our justice system, like any other system put together by humans is imperfect. Every day, innocent people are convicted, and guilty people go free.
Remember the "s**t sandwich" metaphor: the more bread you have, the less s**t you have to eat!
One day during the OJ fiasco, I was asked if I thought the LAPD had planted evidence while searching OJ's house. I replied: "yes, and I believe he's guilty, too." The cops were trying not to eat the sandwich.
(Dragging us somewhat back on topic) guys who juice to "hit their way off the island" or to stay competitive at the highest levels of the sport, are trying not to eat the sandwich.
In the end, however...we all eat the sandwich!

[yanks12025]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

You dont have to talk to me like im a retard. We all have different opinion's on things in life.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

You dont have to talk to me like im a retard. We all have different opinion's on things in life.

Like I said, as a child posting on an adult forum, if you go to auctions with your father, your father should also take the time to teach you to post like an adult.

I have no problem with your views.

[Fraudfinder!!]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

This is still the United States of America, right? Innocent until proven guilty, right? So Palmiero should fry in hell for what happened to him?


Joel,
Innocent until proven guilty is a legal requirment after one has been charged, indicted, etc and is going through the United States criminal justice system. The judge or jury MUST presume an accused as innocent until proven guilty. They are the only ones that must adhere to this requirment. The general public has every right to prejudge a person's guilt or innocence on any subject, right or wrong. One need not be convicted of any crime for a citizen to speak out on their opinion on any case. There is no presumption of innocence on anyone not charged with a crime, and the only people that are bound by that presumption once they are chaged is the jurist(s).

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal requirment after one has been charged, indicted, etc and is going through the United States criminal justice system. The judge or jury MUST presume an accused as innocent until proven guilty. They are the only ones that must adhere to this requirment. The general public has every right to prejudge a person's guilt or innocence on any subject, right or wrong. One need not be convicted of any crime for a citizen to speak out on their opinion on any case. There is no presumption of innocence on anyone not charged with a crime, and the only people that are bound by that presumption once they are chaged is the jurist(s).

So, Bonds should not be allowed to play baseball again and he should not be in the hall because a few people state that?

I don't mind a debate, but this isn't a court so people are innocent until proven guilty by our court system.

What has been proven against Bonds that he should be fried?

[sylbry]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Damn, I was really hoping this thread would stay on track. I was curious to hear people's observations on McGwire, Sosa, and Giambi's game equipment values. Oh well.

On the steriod issue, I believe they have been illegal in the United States without a doctor's perscription since 1991. Last time I checked baseball's rules didn't trump the laws of the USA. I don't think baseball has a rule that states you can't murder someone. You get where I am going with this.

So maybe the can't be kicked out of baseball for breaking a yet to exist baseball rule but that argument isn't going to prevent them from going to jail if it gets to that point (which it most likely won't.)

[byergo]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Joel,
Will you be convinced that more than just a few people are absolutely certain that Bonds was a roid'er when he fails to get voted into the HOF?

I'll go on record now predicting that all the players I've mentioned thus far (Bonds/Mcgwire/Palmeiro/Canseco) will not get 1st ballot entry in the HOF at a minimum, and it is possibly they may never get in. This despite the inarguable fact that Bonds/Mcgwire/Palmeiro all have "no-brainer" 1st ballot career stats.