NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

[dafivehole]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

It starts with the man in the mirror

[5kRunner]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

If someone can afford to spend $14k on a jersey, who are we to tell them they can't?

This is the United States of America. If you don't like your present situation, you can change it any day you feel like it. If you can't afford to spend $14k for a jersey, but want to. Put a plan together, Bust your butt, change professions, do whatever you have to do and get it done.

But don't tell someone they can't or are stupid for spending THEIR money on something THEY want.

[mvandor]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

If someone can afford to spend $14k on a jersey, who are we to tell them they can't?

This is the United States of America. If you don't like your present situation, you can change it any day you feel like it. If you can't afford to spend $14k for a jersey, but want to. Put a plan together, Bust your butt, change professions, do whatever you have to do and get it done.

But don't tell someone they can't or are stupid for spending THEIR money on something THEY want.

Hmm, I don't recall insulting anyone in this thread. If the hobby has millionaires that continue to price us schlubs out on items, so be it. However, most people I know with money got it by being wise and judicious in how they manage it. Clearly, many of these NFL Auction items are being purchased far beyond reasonable market rates likely by guys with jack to spare that can afford not to care about whether they get their money back on resale - or heck even at estate sale when they go.

Certainly given the cost of GU items, the vast majority of collectors can't afford to buy without confidence they can get their money out at some future point - for the benefit of them or their heirs. Heck, even collectors of expensive art in the top 1% of income earners generally consider return on sale when they bid on art.

[34swtns]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

Well said, mvandor

5KRunner, you're putting words into people's mouths.
Not cool.

[5kRunner]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

mvandor,
You're right. I apologize, no one insulted anyone. I misread lund's statement about "implying people are stupid" as someone had said it. But, I re-read the thread and clearly there are no insults. Sorry.

[CollectGU]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

Clearly, many of these NFL Auction items are being purchased far beyond reasonable market rates likely by guys with jack to spare that can afford not to care about whether they get their money back on resale - or heck even at estate sale when they go.

People who are buying from the NFL and NBA are defining the market rates not going beyond them. These are unique items with pristine provenenace that can be photo matched to games. Years from now, the backlash from all the bad current player crap out there will actually cause pieces like this with provenance directly to the game played to be highly coveted by collectors because there will be so few available. Supply and demand will be on their side....

Dave

[lund6771]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

Dave...can you believe it?...we actually agree on something!!!

[kingjammy24]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

hello gents

- "nfl prices are a lot higher than comparable items from ebay/auction houses!"

provenance costs money. apparently, some are willing to a substantial premium to sleep at night.

- "the little guy can't afford this stuff!"

welcome to life. nfl auctions is hardly unique in this respect. the little guy is priced out of tons of stuff. perhaps i should go to the local bentley dealership and express my disdain that i've been priced out of a new '08 continental. this is a hobby; a luxury. unless we're talking about necessities like sufficient housing, food and clothing, then there's no requirement or expectation that these items be priced within your personal budget. like any hobby, there is a financial barrier to entry. if you find the barrier too steep then either increase your income, decrease your expenses, or find a hobby that is more commensurate with your financial means. again, collecting game-used items is not an inherant right. most people in the world feel limited by their financial means to one extent or another.

- "this stuff is way over market value!"

comparing items with no provenance to items with strong provenance is not accurate. the market reflects this. the market value for a john lynch jersey with no provenance is not the same market value as for one sold directly from the team.

- "they'll never recoup their money if they decide to sell"

they'll likely have a far easier time selling than if they'd have no provenance. congrats on buying an LT "gamer" on ebay for $1k. good luck selling it in 10 yrs when every legit gamer on the market will come from the team/league and your undocumented jersey is regarded as an anomaly. ask george jetefan what he feels the emergence of steiner did to his pre-steiner yankees collection.

secondly, many are correct in saying that the buyers don't care if they recoup their money and others wonder how it's possible to not care. easy; it's a hobby so you naturally assume you're going to lose money. isn't that what hobbies typically do? the money i spend in this hobby is set aside as mad/fun money so i assume it won't be recouped. the funny thing is that many of those who wonder how it's possible to spend thousands that can't be recouped also have kids. good luck recouping money spent on kids. when these folks go on vacation, do they return only to lament that the vacation didn't make them any money? kids, hobbies, vacations, pets are all money losers. to expect them to be anything else is to completely miss the point of them. if you cannot spend money that has a chance of being lost, then i suggest a CD, money market fund, or GE stock. i don't suggest a pujols bat or jeter jersey. if an inability to recoup what you've spent would pose a financial hardship on your family, then perhaps you shouldn't be spending that money in the first place.

"Over spending because you "Know it's real" isn't worth that much..."

it is to me. i derive great pleasure from my jays jerseys that i purchased directly from the team. i imagine roger also gets great pleasure from many of his iron-clad items. what's that joy worth exactly? whatever it's worth, it's certainly more than the items that i don't have 100% faith in.

many spoke of needing to maintain future resale value. while it's difficult to do this when you've overpaid, it's also going to be increasingly difficult to sell in a future where team/league provenance will be commonplace. i've seen jerseys with no provenance rot on ebay for months while their counterparts with provenance have sold quickly for high amounts. they may have lost money but at least they sold.

"..brother when you got bills to pay, kids to raise, and you're doing it with 1 or 2 average household incomes"

these are all personal choices; prioritizations. don't lament that you can't have your cake and eat it too though. if a person chooses to have umpteen kids and chooses to have 1 spouse stay at home, then it makes little sense for them to complain about their lack of discretionary income or their ability to financially compete with people who chose not to have kids. the funny thing is that they'll spend a TON of money on their kids and not expect a financial return.

"The market will eventually bottom out and these items will start to be more realistic... it's just that the original buyers will lose a ton of money on their initial investments. Patience my friends..."

this may very well happen. it certainly happened with Steiner. when they first came out with their yankee items, most collectors spit soda out of their mouths. a few well-heeled collectors paid but most stood on the sidelines disgusted and complained about their unrealistic prices. (to be fair though, these nfl prices were set by the auction results. ie: the market. steiner's initial prices weren't set by the market.) eventually the predictions came true and their supply outstripped the demand. consequently, prices fell. i'm sure the early buyers lost money. i doubt many of them care. afterall, they got first pick of the items and many of them likely acquired their grail pieces and derive a great deal of pleasure from them to this day. they know the difference between a hobby and an investment.

rudy.

[mvandor]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

People who are buying from the NFL and NBA are defining the market rates not going beyond them.

This is only true if the same NFL COA'd items bring as much on the secondary market when resold. Provenance doesn't change on the item but I'm fairly certain buyers at these NFL Auction prices won't find recouping their monies so easy to do at resale regardless of the NFL COA.

That in a nutshell is my point.

[kingjammy24]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

This is only true if the same NFL COA'd items bring as much on the secondary market when resold. Provenance doesn't change on the item but I'm fairly certain buyers at these NFL Auction prices won't find recouping their monies so easy to do at resale regardless of the NFL COA.

That in a nutshell is my point.

i agree this is likely. many who paid top dollar with steiner weren't able to get the same amount when they turned around and sold their steiner yankee shirts on ebay or at auctions.

any theories as to why?

rudy.

[RKGIBSON]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

I am not sure where the myth that I am wealth got started. I have amassed a lot of stuff in 55 years, thats the way it usually works. I do spend my extra money on game used items as I want. I restore cars for a living. I am compensated, well as I am good. www.rogergibsonautorestoration.com You can see what I do.

I do not disrespect anyone here for what the collect. You can buy big foam fingers, that were waved at a game, if that is what turns you on. I got one customer that has 6000 beer openers??????

I do have regard for the amount I spend. I wanted to buy the Simms and Harte jerseys, Heisman winners, in AMI. They just went higher than I wanted to pay. I was saving my money for the LT helmet. Am I normal by standards?

After speaking to Victor, I found out a card company was bidding was bidding up the Harte. I told myself there is no way that jersey is worth that to me, and quit. Lucky enough some collector stayed on it and won it from being cut up. I suspect that is exactly what was going on with the 07 LT.

Spirited debate here is a fine. I alway like to know how other collectors, buyers, think. There is nothing wrong with dealers or individuals buying and selling, I have done a lot of it since 1995. I am always looking for the next great peice, upgrading.

There are always two or more bidders that set the prices we have to pay in NFL Auctions, I'm not sure about others . I wish I could spend less, I might buy another guitar. I may be sitting in a nursing home wearing my Peyton Manning jersey some day, cause I can't sell it, but I'll be enjoying it.

Respectfully,
Roger

[RKGIBSON]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

Jake51,

My email: irestorecars@sbcglobal.net

Roger

[34swtns]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

This whole issue is simply a difference between the "haves" and the "have nots". Neither can know the reasoning behind the other's actions. Bottom line.

Rudy....spoken like a true "have".
I'm quite sure us "have nots" will all be just fine never having had the opportunity to own some of the luxury items owned by the "haves". One thing's for sure though, when all is said and done, I will have gained infinitely more of a "return" on my investment in my kids than all the jerseys in the world.

Maybe, in life, the true measure of a man is in what he truly places value upon. That being the case, I think us "have nots" are actually the real "haves" here, come to think of it.

[kingjammy24]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

"This whole issue is simply a difference between the "haves" and the "have nots". Neither can know the reasoning behind the other's actions. Bottom line.
Rudy....spoken like a true "have".
I'm quite sure us "have nots" will all be just fine never having had the opportunity to own some of the luxury items owned by the "haves". One thing's for sure though, when all is said and done, I will have gained infinitely more of a "return" on my investment in my kids than all the jerseys in the world."

spoke like a "have" because i said that this hobby may not be for everyone's budget? or because i said that there's nothing unfair about not being able to afford an LT gamer?

we're all simultaneously 'haves' and 'have nots'. some can't afford what i can and i can't afford what others can. i'm sure that's the same for you 34swtns. you call yourself a "have not" but that's only in relation to certain others. compare yourself to another group of folks and you're a "have".

i don't believe it's necessarily a have vs have not discussion. the issues i was responding to specifically were the ones expressing dismay at being priced out, those directing criticism towards those who simply decided to pay a certain price, and those that said that game-used items should always recoup their investments.

we're all priced out of certain things. it's how you're viewing it that's the issue. fact is, i'd love to own a '92 alomar WS game-used jersey. if one came on the market, it'd be too rich for my blood. i wouldn't sit there and lament my position and how it's unfair and say "the rich idiot who bought it has more money than sense! he'll never get his money back!". i'd say good for him, i hope he enjoys it, it's a great jersey. i'm priced out of a million things in life. someone here said it's a man's right to complain and it's free to do so. if you're going to lament all the things you can't afford in life, it's going to be a long, tiring life. however, i suppose a long tiring life is also your right and it's also free.

"Maybe, in life, the true measure of a man is in what he truly places value upon. That being the case, I think us "have nots" are actually the real "haves" here, come to think of it."

i agree that the measure of a man is in what he values. that said, i'm not sure what it is about being financially wealthy that precludes a person from valuing their family or friends as much as someone who isn't wealthy.
you speak as if the "haves" can't possibly have friends and family and appreciate them as much as the "have nots".

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?

when all is said and done, I will have gained infinitely more of a "return" on my investment in my kids than all the jerseys in the world.

by the way, you've proven my point. despite how much money you've poured into your kids, the intangible rewards were worth it. the money was irrelevant and you didn't expect a financial return.

in the same way, when someone pays a huge amount for a jersey that they really treasure, they don't give a rat's ass about whether or it they'll recoup their costs because the intangible rewards are worth it to them.

if you can understand that with kids, then you can understand it with something as simple as jerseys. kids aren't financial investments and i was simply saying that neither is a hobby. both offer intangible rewards that make the financial investment worth it.

rudy.