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  1. #101
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    Quote Originally Posted by gobills123 View Post
    Mark, one thing i didnt follow was the Falcons used their throwbacks again for the hall of fame game the following season in 95? Was this an all new set then? Obviously the roster wouldnt be the same and it would be heavily expanded if that game took place in the spring back then as it does now. That seems like a LOT of extra Falcons throwbacks out there so that makes me think I misunderstood you.

    The rack of whites you saw, were they all throwback George? or if a year later, just all regular white George that were made for charity/sale etc.

    I think I read here some teams had to have a different supplier for the throwback sets? Was there ever a reason or theory as to why this took place?
    Sorry for the confusion. I was about as clear as mud in that explanation. That's what happens when I start writing essays after midnight!

    To clarify, the Hall of Fame Game I was referencing was played in 1994 (July 30). The Falcons wore their red throwback jerseys in that game and again on September 18 in a regular season game at home against the Chiefs. They wore their white throwbacks in Washington the following week (September 25).

    As for the rack of Jeff George jerseys that I saw in the Falcons equipment room in the spring of 1995, those were regular season white road jerseys intended for use in the 1995 season. The main reason the equipment manager was showing me the jerseys is that the Falcons had made a slight change to their white jerseys for the upcoming 1995 season (added a black trim to the collar).

    As for different suppliers providing the throwbacks, the only team that I am aware of that used a different supplier for its throwbacks was San Diego. The regular season jerseys were Starter and the throwbacks were Russell. Here are the teams I am familiar with and can positively identify the suppliers:

    Atlanta - Russell
    Buffalo - Champion
    Chicago - Champion
    Dallas - Apex
    Denver - Wilson
    Detroit - Apex (their non-throwback jerseys worn in the first part of the season were Wilson as they didn't start wearing the Apex jerseys until later.)
    Green Bay - Starter
    Kansas City - Wilson
    Los Angeles Rams - Russell
    Miami - Wilson
    Oakland - Starter
    Philadelphia - Russell
    Pittsburgh - Starter
    New Orleans - Champion
    New York Giants - Apex
    New York Jets - Champion
    San Diego - Russell on throwbacks and Starter for non-throwbacks
    San Francisco - Wilson
    Seattle - Wilson
    Washington - Starter

    Mark Hayne
    Gridiron Exchange
    gixc@verizon.net

    I AM BEGGING FOR YOUR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS!!!

  2. #102
    Senior Member Samets's Avatar
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    Quote Originally Posted by gobills123 View Post
    Also, I've always kinda wondered about the non M&N 'issued/game cut' Favre and Elways out there. Were these just mass produced retail versions or at the time did the team just make a bunch that were sold similar to the Bears story?
    As far as the Favre throwbacks are concerned...
    There are about three dozen known out there in the hobby. Top-notch forgeries which had been introduced to the market by... the Green Bay Packers.
    In 1998, Grey Flannel Auctions contracted with the Packers for the club to provide custom jerseys for an auction. The Packers took thirty-six unused jerseys supplied to the team by Ripon Athletic, but not actually issued by the team to any player, and "re-purposed" them with Favre numbers and nameplates.
    I borrowed that from the Green Bay Packers Uniform Database. Read the whole story here!


    Quote Originally Posted by gobills123 View Post
    Its REALLY neat that the Bears offered T shirts and different level replica/authentic for purchase. That said, I'm surprised you dont come across these more often if they were avbl for public/retail purchase. What were the small differences between the store and the game jerseys? were the lower level Champion jerseys as well? Very cool the Bears had the foresight to offer something like that as now its a given (and maybe even done FOR the prospect of sales) but back then it obv wasnt taken advantage to its fullest potential for a marketing/sales standpoint. Oddly, that 6 on the kicker jersey looks like an upside-down 9. That was the one you said was a retail, right?

    Champion really knew how to make a jersey. The detail and how that appears to be made is REALLY cool. As was the double tagging - tagging done right! Bills jerseys from these years didnt seem to have double tags if it was a mid season order, were Bears done that way too?

    From what I've gathered myself and other collectors...

    Logo Athletic seemed to have made the t-shirts and low end jerseys. Some even had the 1994 75th anniversary patch. Then you stepped up to the Nike's offerings. I've seen a few variations of them. On the higher end ones, Nike had the players name sewn directly to the back of the Jersey. You can see it in the Butler I showed above and the Zorich below.

    Champion jerseys were only available through mail order or teams pro shop. I'm not sure how this whole thing worked but there are jerseys of players with straight sleeves (more retail and casual wear or QB cut at the time) and some that are cuffed correctly (game wear for most players). Maybe they had multiple tiers? Maybe these were team blank leftovers and you bought based on size you wanted and received whatever they had left? I don't know...

    As you can imagine, the devil is in the detail. For whatever reason, the numbers done by the pro shop (mail order/retail) seem to be slightly off sized and placed differently then what the team seamstress did... I bet the seamstress had a template that was followed and the ones doing the retail side were done with close enough mentality... I've also included some side by sides of Pro shop versions next to the actual gamer.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #103
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    Amazing pics!!
    Crazy LA AND Nike got involved on the throwback train.
    IMO, neither look even close to as nice as the Champion ones though.
    It looks like a lot went into making those as well w all the pieces etc.
    So, maybe this was done differently bc the Bears had sewn numbers but for reg season stuff, do you know what the normal protocol was for jerseys getting numbered? We're the already done upon arrival? Or blank and then numbered by the team?
    I think the Jets had gone to sewn numbers by then... maybe the Bengals too? Off the top of my head I can't recall another team using screened number champion jerseys at the time. If there was, maybe an expert from THAT team would know if the screened ones showed up already done to maintain the Champion font.
    I know the Bills were one of the last if not THE last to use screened numbers. After the Champion 87 port hole mesh set, all remaining champion and the sprinkled in Apex were screened until 97 when they went to WILSON, followed by logo athletic, puma and finally Reebok. After a few years of red white and blue screen print jerseys they changed to those hideous dark blue ones and brought in sewn numbers. The fact that each of the brand changes prior to that and after champion had different fonts as each company had a different style would lead me to guess they came to the team already #d... but again. I have no idea.

    Anywho, thanks again for sharing those cool pics. I'm not a Bears guy but it's really fun and pretty neat to learn about stuff I had no idea about. Again, just amazes me the Bears were so far ahead of their time with this!

  4. #104
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    Quote Originally Posted by G1X View Post
    Sorry for the confusion. I was about as clear as mud in that explanation. That's what happens when I start writing essays after midnight!

    To clarify, the Hall of Fame Game I was referencing was played in 1994 (July 30). The Falcons wore their red throwback jerseys in that game and again on September 18 in a regular season game at home against the Chiefs. They wore their white throwbacks in Washington the following week (September 25).

    As for the rack of Jeff George jerseys that I saw in the Falcons equipment room in the spring of 1995, those were regular season white road jerseys intended for use in the 1995 season. The main reason the equipment manager was showing me the jerseys is that the Falcons had made a slight change to their white jerseys for the upcoming 1995 season (added a black trim to the collar).

    As for different suppliers providing the throwbacks, the only team that I am aware of that used a different supplier for its throwbacks was San Diego. The regular season jerseys were Starter and the throwbacks were Russell. Here are the teams I am familiar with and can positively identify the suppliers:

    Atlanta - Russell
    Buffalo - Champion
    Chicago - Champion
    Dallas - Apex
    Denver - Wilson
    Detroit - Apex (their non-throwback jerseys worn in the first part of the season were Wilson as they didn't start wearing the Apex jerseys until later.)
    Green Bay - Starter
    Kansas City - Wilson
    Los Angeles Rams - Russell
    Miami - Wilson
    Oakland - Starter
    Philadelphia - Russell
    Pittsburgh - Starter
    New Orleans - Champion
    New York Giants - Apex
    New York Jets - Champion
    San Diego - Russell on throwbacks and Starter for non-throwbacks
    San Francisco - Wilson
    Seattle - Wilson
    Washington - Starter

    Mark Hayne
    Gridiron Exchange
    gixc@verizon.net

    I AM BEGGING FOR YOUR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS!!!
    as always, great info...

    I wonder why SD had to go w/Russell, especially as your list shows that (and we had discussed GB) starter was willing make throwbacks!

  5. #105
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    Quote Originally Posted by gobills123 View Post
    as always, great info...

    I wonder why SD had to go w/Russell, especially as your list shows that (and we had discussed GB) starter was willing make throwbacks!
    The Chargers used Russell in 1993, so perhaps they had already made arrangements to have Russell make the throwbacks before deciding to switch to Starter. Maybe a Chargers collector on here can shed more light on this.

    Mark Hayne
    Gridiron Exchange
    gixc@verizon.net

    I AM BEGGING FOR YOUR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS!!!

  6. #106
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    979

    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Samets View Post
    As far as the Favre throwbacks are concerned...
    There are about three dozen known out there in the hobby. Top-notch forgeries which had been introduced to the market by... the Green Bay Packers.
    In 1998, Grey Flannel Auctions contracted with the Packers for the club to provide custom jerseys for an auction. The Packers took thirty-six unused jerseys supplied to the team by Ripon Athletic, but not actually issued by the team to any player, and "re-purposed" them with Favre numbers and nameplates.
    I borrowed that from the Green Bay Packers Uniform Database. Read the whole story here!

    From what I've gathered myself and other collectors...

    Logo Athletic seemed to have made the t-shirts and low end jerseys. Some even had the 1994 75th anniversary patch. Then you stepped up to the Nike's offerings. I've seen a few variations of them. On the higher end ones, Nike had the players name sewn directly to the back of the Jersey. You can see it in the Butler I showed above and the Zorich below.

    Champion jerseys were only available through mail order or teams pro shop. I'm not sure how this whole thing worked but there are jerseys of players with straight sleeves (more retail and casual wear or QB cut at the time) and some that are cuffed correctly (game wear for most players). Maybe they had multiple tiers? Maybe these were team blank leftovers and you bought based on size you wanted and received whatever they had left? I don't know...

    As you can imagine, the devil is in the detail. For whatever reason, the numbers done by the pro shop (mail order/retail) seem to be slightly off sized and placed differently then what the team seamstress did... I bet the seamstress had a template that was followed and the ones doing the retail side were done with close enough mentality... I've also included some side by sides of Pro shop versions next to the actual gamer.

    Thanks for sharing all of the great information about the Bears throwbacks and the photos. It's really scary to see how close the high end team shop jerseys are to the game-worn jerseys. The information you provided about the Favre throwbacks is also very valuable as it explains how so many got out into the hobby.

    Mark Hayne
    Gridiron Exchange
    gixc@verizon.net

    I AM BEGGING FOR YOUR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS!!!

  7. #107
    Senior Member Samets's Avatar
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    Quote Originally Posted by G1X View Post
    Thanks for sharing all of the great information about the Bears throwbacks and the photos. It's really scary to see how close the high end team shop jerseys are to the game-worn jerseys. The information you provided about the Favre throwbacks is also very valuable as it explains how so many got out into the hobby.

    Mark Hayne
    Gridiron Exchange
    gixc@verizon.net

    I AM BEGGING FOR YOUR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS!!!
    Anytime!.

  8. #108
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    ya, seriously great stuff guys - both of you!

    I've found some really interesting stuff via search (the young 94 for a boat trade was my favorite) where some of this was mentioned in bits and pieces.
    Sorry for anything you guys had to repeat - but even though this shied away from Bills stuff its still GREAT info and very good to know.

    The very last thing I'd like to ask you guys (and i assume it just got lost in my barrage of questions)....


    Were numbers done in house for your respective teams? I know the bears used champion and I think the Falcons did too (91ish?)
    Bears were sewn so it might be different. But I'd think to keep the 'champion font' correct and consistent the jerseys would come already numbered.


    depending on what you guys think - either way it explains things and opens more questions at the same time.


    Thanks again for the help!!!

  9. #109
    Senior Member Samets's Avatar
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    My understanding is that all Bears jerseys even now are purchased as blanks in requested sizes.

  10. #110
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    Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

    Ok, makes sense.
    I know the Bills are blanks now as well.
    To me, that's interesting for screen printed teams....
    I wonder how champion made sure all the numbers were uniform and the correct font. It didn't occur to me (but it's painfully obvious) that the Bears never partook in that don't as they have always had their unique number thing going on - which is the coolest font going imo.

 

 

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