1994 Bills Throwback Question

[G1X]

Marcus,

It is very important in the context of this disucssion to know that the Kelly jersey that was listed for sale in this Forum several weeks ago is the same one listed on ebay. It is also the same Seller.

Also, it bears repeating what I stated in an earlier thread about terminology. Some collectors interchange the terminology in describing "screened-on" numbers as some call it "ironed-on", some call it "painted-on", some say "silk-screened", and I have even hear the term "rubberized" numbers. When I hear a collector say "ironed-on" numbers, I assume that the numbers are "screened-on".

I have known WOODFERN for a long time and am familiar with his collection of 1994 "throwback" jerseys that he is in the process of selling. The Kelly jersey has been part of his collection for a few years. I have not seen the jersey in person, so I will reserve any comments about it being "game-worn", but in conversations with WOODFERN over the years, I can assure you that he usues the term "screened-on" interchangeably with "ironed-on". In other words, it means the same to him. If he sees a jersey with "screened-on" numbers, he will often say "ironed-on".

Although the photos are not very clear, there is nothing that looks unique or unusual about the numbers. It is the classic Champion-style font as was typical of Champion jerseys manufactured in 1994, and the numbers appear to be the typical "screened-on" numbers of that era.

I hope this information is helpful.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[mchmaj]

Marcus,
Also, it bears repeating what I stated in an earlier thread about terminology. Some collectors interchange the terminology in describing "screened-on" numbers as some call it "ironed-on", some call it "painted-on", some say "silk-screened", and I have even hear the term "rubberized" numbers. When I hear a collector say "ironed-on" numbers, I assume that the numbers are "screened-on".

I have known WOODFERN for a long time and am familiar with his collection of 1994 "throwback" jerseys that he is in the process of selling. The Kelly jersey has been part of his collection for a few years. I have not seen the jersey in person, so I will reserve any comments about it being "game-worn", but in conversations with WOODFERN over the years, I can assure you that he usues the term "screened-on" interchangeably with "ironed-on". In other words, it means the same to him. If he sees a jersey with "screened-on" numbers, he will often say "ironed-on".

Although the photos are not very clear, there is nothing that looks unique or unusual about the numbers. It is the classic Champion-style font as was typical of Champion jerseys manufactured in 1994, and the numbers appear to be the typical "screened-on" numbers of that era.

I hope this information is helpful.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

mark, why didnt you just listen to me ? ? i already provide facts and you still yet questioned me .......
i already MENTIONED that the SELLER TOLD ME HIMSELF that the KELLY letters on the back are DIFFERENT material than the NUMBERS on the JERSEY, SUCH AS the kelly and the stripes on each sleeves are painted/screened on and the #12s are different and they are like the shiny numbers as silk rubberlike "yes you are right the KELLY and stripes are different materials than the #12s" that what he said on the emails between us.
facts provided enough, mark ???
thank you very much
my problem with this forum , no one believes me what i have said about BILLS jerseys .... why is that so HARD ?? i got many primary sources of BILLS uniforms history, and whats more my BA is in history !!! so i know my research and i already proved some BILLS jerseys that are bad ones and some are good ones from the owners of the BILLS jerseys.....
marcus

[mchmaj]

heres link of 1994 bills john fina game jersey on ebay
it speaks of itself .....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=011

i have sold 1995 PAUP #95 jersey on ebay couple of years ago and its heavy painted/screened on
not the iron on , i think you are right bills worn rubber like numbers maybe in 1998- 1999 season with PUMA or logo athetics... the iron on numbes is different because the rubber like numbers are softer and the iron on numbers are harder materials. good example of the iron on numbers, the 80s la rams and bears worn them ....

[toddhead]

It's not that nobody believes you, it's just that you kind of come across as arrogant, so most people don't focus on the facts you are presenting... just the fact that you don't possibly think you can be wrong. I don't doubt that you are an expert in Bills uniforms, but I doubt the fact that you are 100% right all of the time. I have read some of your other postings and they are all the same... maybe if you took a more laid back, less aggressive approach to explaining the flaws in jerseys people post here you would get more discussion about the jerseys instead of time wasted with post like mine.

[mchmaj]

yeah you are right, and this goes no where now. i am giving the white flag now and this will be be my last post about the bills kelly jersey. i am giving up so you guys calls whatever you thinks !
i have called "all in" with my chips with pocket of red aces.......anyone calls ??
cheers
marcus

[G1X]

Marcus,

I am not questioning your expertise on Bills materials. The only visual evidence you provided (the photos of the jersey) shows that the numbers and lettering are typical of 1994 jerseys made by Champion. Due to the way a number with trim is screened on to a jersey, it can look and feel like a different material than the lettering screened onto a nameplate and the sleeve stripes (due to the thickness, texture, etc.) This sometimes leads to confusion in terminology when describing a jersey, and this seems to be the case in this instance.

I called WOODFERN last night regarding this jersey. His description over the telephone and my observations of the photos leads me to reason that there is nothing unique or unusual about the numbers and lettering on this jersey. That's just my humble opinion based on his description to me and observing the photos. You feel otherwise based on your email exchanges, but this all seems to be a matter of not being clear on each other's terminology in email exchanges between you and WOODFERN as opposed to actual visual evidence indicating that something is incorrect with the numbers and lettering. Again, what one collector describes as "screened-on", another collector might describe as "ironed-on".

Please ignore for a moment the different use of terminology that has been discussed and look solely at the photos. If there is something that doesn't look right about the numbers and lettering, please share this knowledge with us.

Thanks!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[WOODFERN]

Because I`m The Guy Selling This Jersey I Would Like To Add Something. There`s A Post On Here Stating There Is A 1994 John Fina White Bills Jersey Listed On Ebay. I Got A Closeup Of That Jersey`s Numbers And Compared It To The Numbers On The Kelly Jersey They Sure Look Like They Were Put ON The Same To Me. Maybe Its The Terminology. I Don`t Know. The Only Way To Be Sure Is To Have Both Jerseys In Front Me But By Looking At The Picture And Looking At The Kelly, The Numbering Looks Consistant With Each Other. As Far As How I List A Jersey On Ebay, I Don`t Have A Scanner To Show Pictues, So I Take A Picture From My Cell Phone And Foward It To My Email Address. I Clearly State That If Someone Wants To See A Picture Or Has Any Questions To Please Give Me There Email Address And I Will Gladly Foward The Pictures To Them And Answer Their Questions. I Want To Make That Clear. Is It The Best Way? Maybe Not. But, I Try To Be As Honest As I Can. There Still Is This One Person On This Forum Who Still Thinks I Won This Jersey An Added The Numbers. I Have I Little Bit More Sense That To Try To Do That. I WOULD DO THAT And Never Will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WOODFERN]

I Made A Mistake Ending My First Post. It Should Be I Would Never Do That And Never Will.

[WOODFERN]

Because I`m The Guy Selling This Jersey I Would Like To Add Something. There`s A Post On Here Stating There Is A 1994 John Fina White Bills Jersey Listed On Ebay. I Got A Closeup Of That Jersey`s Numbers And Compared It To The Numbers On The Kelly Jersey They Sure Look Like They Were Put ON The Same To Me. Maybe Its The Terminology. I Don`t Know. The Only Way To Be Sure Is To Have Both Jerseys In Front Me But By Looking At The Picture And Looking At The Kelly, The Numbering Looks Consistant With Each Other. As Far As How I List A Jersey On Ebay, I Don`t Have A Scanner To Show Pictues, So I Take A Picture From My Cell Phone And Foward It To My Email Address. I Clearly State That If Someone Wants To See A Picture Or Has Any Questions To Please Give Me There Email Address And I Will Gladly Foward The Pictures To Them And Answer Their Questions. I Want To Make That Clear. Is It The Best Way? Maybe Not. But, I Try To Be As Honest As I Can. There Still Is This One Person On This Forum Who Still Thinks I Won This Jersey An Added The Numbers. I Have I Little Bit More Sense That To Try To Do That. I WOULD NEVER DO THAT And Never Will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mchmaj]

Maybe Not. But, I Try To Be As Honest As I Can. There Still Is This One Person On This Forum Who Still Thinks I Won This Jersey An Added The Numbers. I Have I Little Bit More Sense That To Try To Do That. I WOULD NEVER DO THAT And Never Will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

i dont still think you bought the jersey from ebay, it was already moved on
just that timing is funny because i found the RARE throwback BILLS jersey with no numbers and it has KELLY on the back on the ebay. whats more.... the jersey has SAME taggings of the size 44 and 35th anniv tags. it was sold couple of months ago on ebay.

THEN you posted kelly throwback for sale few weeks ago....that was the SAME TAGGINGS, colors, two stripes and KELLY on the back BUT your kelly had numbers and i did the math and that why i assumed. I am sorry and i was wrong.

Maybe there are few made throwback KELLY jerseys for the BILLS ?
can you send me an email picture of the auction date and close up COA picture of the jersey
take it easy woodfery
marcus