ARod flips the bird to Steiner again.

[kingjammy24]

sort of funny. steiner pays a substantial amount for an "exclusive" contract with the yankees. the star player continues to disregard it and markets his jerseys elsewhere, exactly as he had when he was with the rangers when they had an "exclusive" agreement with meigray.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220177643416

steiner admitted that it's possible that things could be snuck out of the clubhouse. this isn't about sneaking an item out the clubhouse per se. the star player has signed an agreement with another marketing company and provided them with items that steiner has already paid the yankees for! via their exclusive agreement, steiner paid for that '07 ARod BP shirt. not only did they not receive it, but ARod decides to personally profit off it by selling it to another firm. what sort of iron-clad exclusive agreement does steiner have when apparently star players are free to market their game-used jerseys with competing firms? if an item was snuck out of the clubhouse, then why wouldn't steiner attempt to take back whats theirs when the item is publically marketed? this occurred previously with another ARod BP and steiner's only response was "it could be legit. it's possible he snuck it out". well that's fine if he did, but i'm mystified by the fact that steiner doesn't attempt to repo items that belong to them vis a vis their team contract.

barry meisel apparently didn't believe ARod was pulling these sorts of shenanigans when he was with the rangers, despite the abundance of non-meigray ARod gamers out there with "game used" inscriptions and ARod LOAs. apparently when he switched to the yankees, he had no intentions of giving up his old habits, despite the fact that both meigray and steiner had "exclusive" team contracts.

rudy.

[suave1477]

Rudy just to add what your saying and maybe shed a bit of light.

This is nothing new AROD has been doing this since he has been with the Yankees. I am sure Steiner is well aware at this pont that something fishy is going on when they get tons of everybody elses stuff from the team but ARODS. You say he is bringing it to there competitor well thats really a mere technicality. I wouldn't nessecarilly say MVP is a direct competitor because having one major star game used items compared to quite a few teams items that Steiner has I wouldn't call a competitior. You say why doesn't Steiner go after these items that rightfully belong to them, I cannot give an exact reason then just a logical reason. It's not worth it!!! Plain and simple in my opinion your speaking of a multi million dollar backed company chasing after a few thousand dollars that would end up costing them probably whatever Steiner could sell it for in Legal fees.

Also another possibility is maybe AROD has set up a seperate deal with the equipment manufacturers that he will pay out of his pocket for his own equipment, which in that case would give AROD the right to do whatever he wants with his equipment.

This is just my 2 cents.

[kingjammy24]

"It's not worth it!!! Plain and simple in my opinion your speaking of a multi million dollar backed company chasing after a few thousand dollars that would end up costing them probably whatever Steiner could sell it for in Legal fees."

if their legal team is in-house/salaried, then the fees are irrelevant as they're paid either way. anyway, on a larger scale, recouping this particular jersey isn't really the issue. that is, it's not about a few thousand dollars. it's about enforcing a contract and setting the tone. if all of the other yankees see ARod getting away with it and steiner doing nothing, then what's to stop the entire team from getting on the wagon? what a great deal..the yankees pay for the jerseys, steiner pays the yankees, and the players sell them privately. then you have a million little marketing companies all claiming to have legit yankee gamers and steiner still claiming to have "exclusive rights" when in reality people know it not to be true. then you're back to the whole mess of what's legit and what isn't because steiner's been knocked out of the game by the players. steiner may be a bumbling organization but i don't believe at all that they're malicious or fraudulent. i can't say the same for all of the tiny marketing companies out there. while i think meigray is the standard for how it should be done, i'd rather have steiner handle the yankee jerseys than have them be blown out to every two-bit, dog-and-pony marketing firm with a 3-letter acronym for a name.

"Also another possibility is maybe AROD has set up a seperate deal with the equipment manufacturers that he will pay out of his pocket for his own equipment, which in that case would give AROD the right to do whatever he wants with his equipment."

i don't know how the steiner/yankees contract is worded. as i understand it, it's "exclusive" meaning if a yankee used a jersey in a game it belonged to steiner. would a player purchasing their own jersey supercede this "exclusive" contract? maybe. maybe not. if it did, then that's a pretty poor contract because then every player could do that and steiner's "exclusive" contract is worth less than the paper it's printed on. think about it. steiner pays a huge amount to the yankees for their jerseys. the entire starting lineup then buys their own jerseys and markets them independantly. where's steiner left? they've just paid a huge amount for the jerseys of the yankee benchwarmers? nice!

i'd like to hear barry meisel's take on how he prevents lebron james from buying his own jerseys and marketing them himself. how much less do you pay for a Cavs contract when it doesn't include lebron james? my guess is a lot less.

rudy.

[suave1477]

KingJammy, I am not sure Steiner has an in house Legal tema but I could be wrong, but I don't think they do which would bring us back to topic of Legal fees.

You say whats to stop the rest of the team from doing what makes you think they don't? What makes you think they haven't been?
And this well answer your next topic of Players buying there own equipment.

Have you ever noticed on ebay Tons of Gary Sheffield Yankees Game Used bats? But you never see Steiner selling any???
Sheff buys his own bats directly and them releases them to his sources to sell. Looking on Ebay right now I am sure you will find Jose Molina, Wilson Betemit, even Robinson Cano bats. Yet they are all Yankee used but not from Steiner.

Now you can say if this is so why doesnt every player do it??? Well is every player on his own that marketable NO
Maybe some players think I make XYZ salary does it pay for me to try to profit a couple of hundred bucks NO.
Or maybe some don't even have the time or could careless about the equipment.

Remember Rudy to us this is a hobby and/or possible profits involved, not to the players.

[Bondsgloves]

I don't get this the guy makes 25 Million a year and he's worried about making a few thousand off of bats, jerseys, etc. Is it really worth his time and effort to deal with his memorabilia. Bonds, Arod, Griffey, Manny, etc., are making millions of dollars and they need to sell there game used equipment. Its a joke that they switch bats every few at bats, Jerseys every game, shoes, etc. just to make a few thousand. The market is flooded by AROD, and a good amount of the stuff signed game used hasn't seen the bat rack. What are these guys thinking? I can see if it was for charity.

[BarryMeisel]

Rudy,

I am not going to discuss MeiGray's business dealings, or its contracts, but I'd like to clarify one general incorrect assumption you are making and one specific incorrect assumption you are making.

1) All contracts are unique entities. So it is impossible for you to effectively compare, contrast, criticize without knowing the unique details.

2) MeiGray does not have a contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers. MeiGray has a contract with the NBA, and as part of that contract we have security-tagged sets of Cavaliers jerseys that become property of the NBA and MGG Program (NBA Finals, Hardwood Classics, Europe Live).

Once we announce our 2007-08 NBA & MGG Authentication Program participants (an announcement for which is coming shortly), we will further detail the security-tagging arrangements for the teams with whom we have contracts. Those teams will be announced shortly, as well.

Hope this helps,
Barry

[kingjammy24]

barry,

thanks for your response. i know we've previously discussed my concern over players privately marketing their jerseys outside of "exclusive" agreements. incidentally, since our last discussion, i stumbled onto this item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=180154195026

while i understand your desire to keep your business and contractual details private, i believe the issue of exclusivity is important to the collectors who patronize your business. after all, a premium is paid for this sort of provenance. it's an issue when the provenance is found not to be as exclusive as advertised. to this end, i'm confused by your reluctance to discuss specifically how meigray would prevent or react to a player privately marketing their own items.

i agree that all contracts are unique and without knowing the details, it's inaccurate to compare, criticize, etc. however, both yours and steiners deals are sold to the public as "exclusive". i don't need to know other details because i'm not discussing other details. i'm solely discussing this notion of exclusivity. unless steiner or meigray has re-written the commonly accepted definition of "exclusive", then i believe i can fairly discuss the issue.

i didn't mean to imply meigray specifically had a deal with the cavs. i was simply saying if one had a deal with the cavs, for example, and the team and league's premier player privately markets his own jerseys, then how much less is the deal worth? that was my only point.

anyway, it's odd that back in the day when the yankees weren't selling their jerseys and kept them under lock and key, they aggressively shut down anyone who got a hold of one and was selling it. legal fees didn't seem to be an issue when there were no profits involved whatsoever.

rudy.

[BarryMeisel]

Rudy,

Thanks for your post.

What you did again, however, is make a blanket assumption about exclusivity that is incorrect.

My exclusive contract several years ago with MLB's Texas Rangers (for example) was different than my current exclusive contract with the NHL's Ottawa Senators (for example).

Exclusive does not necessarily mean a company gets to sell every single jersey worn by the team. It does not necessarily mean a prohibition on the team awarding jerseys to players, or chairites. It could mean, as some of our contracts have, that the team sells its game-worn jerseys only to one retailer, MGG.

It could mean one retailer gets every jersey made available in the marketplace (with the knowledge that some pieces in the collection are earmarked for charities, Hall of Fame, front office, players, etc.).

And of course, as we and other dealers have probably learned the hard way, just because a team insists it has in its possession records on every jersey worn, does not mean some items have not slipped out the back door without a team or marketing company's knowledge.

We work hard every day with the teams and leagues with which we hold contracts to ensure that every item sold or marketed is game-worn ... even if the item reaches the secondary market by secondary channels.

Hope this helps,
Barry

[AROD313]

I think it's great that Arod market's his game used gear through someone else rather than Steiner.
Steiner is one of the biggest rip off's in the industry. They way over price everything they sell. I mean look at some of these prices $15,000 for a 2005 Derek Jeter jersey. $4000 for a Derek Jeter bat, $2,500 for a David Ortiz game used bat the list goes on and on. They recently lowered the prices on many of there item's beacuse no one in there right mind would pay the prices thay were asking. I mean a $1000 dollars for a Jorge Posada bat come on he's a great player but it's a little over the top. How much would Steiner ask for an Arod game used bat $5,000 $6,000 $7,000 who knows. Arod has always gone with the smaller companies to market his item's Mill Creek in Seattle, ASI/Elite in Texas MVP in NY. I think it makes his item's much more affordable and available for the true collector. I mean up in till last year you could pick up an Arod signed game used bat from MVP for around $2000 that's signed inscribed and with a full color LOA signed by Alex. They only recently went up since 07 was his 500 HR year. Trying finding that on Steiner. Every bat I have ever purchased from MVP has been top notch high qaulity and just as described try finding that from Steiner. It also makes it 10 times easier comunicating with a company that has just a hand full of clients you can always get a hold of someone and they actually return your emails and phone calls. Here's my last point to send in a a jersey and have it signed by Derek Jeter through Steiner it's $999 to have him inscribe it will cost you another $500 that's $1,500 for a signed inscribed Jeter jersey through Steiner. Now to have a jersey signed by Arod through MVP will run you $375 and to add an inscription will set you back only $100 thats $475 for a signed inscribed Arod Jersey. So you have $1500 for a Jeter jersey or $475 for an Arod jersey not a tough call unless your Donald Trump!

The day Arod turns over his gear or starts signing for Steiner is the day I stop collecting period!

One more thing does anyone really know what Alex does with the money he makes from his game used item's and private signings. It might be hard for some people on this forum to take in but who know's maybe it goes to charity!!!!!!!!!!!

[reed1216]

I think everyone here has made some great points in this thread. I also appreciate Barry sharing some of his insight on this topic, as MeiGray thrives as a result of their hard work in assuring collectors are getting exactly what they pay for.

As far as jerseys, bats, etc. slipping out the "back door" goes, it goes without saying that items enter the marketplace that way. However, while some good deals are out there, as a result of these incidents, with all the fake stuff out there and all the shady dealers passing them off as real, I'd rather pay a little more to get something I know is 100% real.

I have a fairly large hockey collection and if they didn't come straight from the Phoenix Coyotes (as many of my jerseys have) most have come by way of MeiGray. Furthermore, the only two non-Yankee baseball jerseys I own came by way of MeiGray. One is an Ivan Rodriguez Rangers alternate and the other happens to be an ARod. The ARod is conclusively photomatched too and is one of my favorite pieces in my collection.

Knowing what I know about the game worn inscriptions ARod has written on pieces marketed by other companies, I am very happy that I waited before purchasing mine and don't mind at all that I might have paid a little bit more for the piece of mind I enjoy.

http://community.webshots.com/user/Reed97