I Tried To Take The High Road On The Namath Thing...

[RKO18]

Re: I Tried To Take The High Road On The Namath Thing...

Might seem like a stupid question but where on earth do all of these flawed items originate?

Was someone intentionally trying to scam collectors or are these just items that many people thought were real and have passed them down over time?

[aeneas01]

Re: I Tried To Take The High Road On The Namath Thing...

Might seem like a stupid question but where on earth do all of these flawed items originate? Was someone intentionally trying to scam collectors or are these just items that many people thought were real and have passed them down over time?

good questions and imo it's a little of both, some were intentionally faked to rip off collectors and some were honestly, albeit incorrectly, passed along as authentic gamers. the problem with the later is that at some point someone authenticated these things - so even if they were innocently/honestly believed to be gamers at one time due to bad or misunderstood information, they should have been caught during the authentication process.

with that said, i have a pretty good idea where a lot of these vintage helmets came from, authentic helmets that were intentionally "doctored" in order to make them appear to have come from well known players. i think the person(s) responsible a) know football helmets better than most b) have been collecting game used items for decades c) have developed relationships with equipment managers, players, dealers and auction houses d) are well known and respected and e) have enjoyed the ability to bring their bunk items to market for years, with little to no scrutiny, prior to the internet age. i also believe that for years more than a few auction houses have facilitated this mess by shrugging their responsibility to their buyers - this is clear given the amount of bunk items that pass mustard and the impossible time frame authenticators are given to inspect enormous lots.

but i would think this could change rather quickly if, for example, the fbi got involved. it seems that law enforcement could simply approach an auction house and ask how they determined some items to be authentic. a few items that would be interesting starting points would be both unitas helmets sold through hunt, the unitas helmet sold through mastro, a blanda helmet, a dawson helmet and a namath helmet sold through ami. that's 6 helmets. ask the auction houses a) where they came from b) what proof they were given that supported their authenticity c) what process their authenticator(s) used to determine their authenticity and d) how involved were the auction houses in the authentication process. i think these simple steps, limited to a handful of items, would tell an interesting tale...

...

[slats7]

Re: I Tried To Take The High Road On The Namath Thing...

Aeneas is like a bloodhound when it comes to questionable auction lots. More to the point, he's a con artist's worst nightmare.

Aeneas, do you specialize in Namath/Jets collectibles or do you consider yourself a "generalist"?

[bradcapo1]

Re: I Tried To Take The High Road On The Namath Thing...

Cheers and we look forward to your Forum Favourites selections!


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[bucephalus]

Re: I Tried To Take The High Road On The Namath Thing...

It's not a problem unique to Heritage. I've seen two bogus Bob Griese items from American Memorabilia which sold for 4K+, and 12K. A 1973 helmet, where the side logos are too off the mark to match any photo or footage; and a '73 -'74 helmet from Wilson. If somebody knows a source where he DID wear Wislon at any time, I'd love to see it.