Need opinions on this Chiefs jersey (Derrick Thomas)

[Jags Fan Dan]

Not to sound negative, but the sleeves on this jersey are wrong for the style Derrick used. As can be seen in the 3 pictures of DT in your listing, he wore the tight elastic band sleeves which have the sleeve stripe colors dyed right into the fabric. The sleeves on your jersey are loose open sleeves with printed stripes

I was actually initially looking at the sleeves, too. I thought they looked different in the photos of him wearing the jersey vs. the jersey, but I wrote it off to the fact that here is a big, muscular guy wearing a size 42 jersey.

[byergo]

Peterson28, no offense but you are incorrect about the sleeves. They are tighter in the sleeve than they appear in the pics on a hanger, especially with the large shoulder pads on underneath stretching them tighter against the arm, DT had a small waist but a huge upper body and very muscular arms.

Additionally the painted stripes of color around the end of the sleeve are correct for KC Chiefs gamers. They are not died into the fabric, which is already a bright fire engine red dazzle cloth material and wouldn't accept such a die even if you tried. All the numbers on the jersey obverse/reverse and sleeves are also correctly painted on in this manner, but for the NOB which is tackle twill, which is also correct.

Hope that clarification helps.

[CollectGU]

I ahve to agree with Peterson, the sleeves in the photos also look to be the elasticized/cuffed version as well with the colors dyed into the fabric not at all like the jersey you are selling, and I am not understanding how large shoulderpads stretch the sleeves tighter to the arm as you stated? I just think they are different sleeves

Regards,
Dave

[CollectGU]

Also, is it possible to post some pictures here of the hit marks and tears on the jersey? I think it will help those from the forum interested in bidding....

Regards,
Dave

[aeneas01]

although i know almost nothing about jerseys, imo this garb has some problems. for one it's advertised as a dt "rookie era" jersey".

"This is the rookie era, early career, coveted red home jersey of the greatest KC Chief of All Time, Derrick Thomas."

"Authentic game used DT jerseys are extremely rare, and seldom hit the hobby. Check out this link to an inferior DT game worn jersey (link) with a distracting personalized autograph, not a rookie era jersey, not a home jersey (the home red is FAR more sought after), which brought $1,835 plus 20% auction house juice (total: $2,202)."

"The photos in this auction are a style match for DT wearing this type of jersey, and the original newspaper wire photo (B&W) of Derrick setting the All Time Sack Record (7 sacks VS Seattle at home in 1990) is included. This may be the very jersey DT wore to set this record (note the placement of the Wilson "W" on his left sleeve and the Wilson tag on the bottom right of this jersey as well)."

the problem is teams didn't begin wearing nfl shields at the collar of their jerseys until 1991 - derrick thomas's rookie year was 1989. so, at best, the listed jersey is from dt's third year, not rookie year or "rookie era".

further, the ad states that the listed jersey could "be the very jersey" dt wore when he set the sack record in 1990 - again, dt didn't wear a jersey with an nfl shield at the collar in 1990 so it couldn't be the jersey he wore when he set the record.

i also find the seller's explanation regarding the lack of hit marks a reach - derrick thomas was an nfl linebacker, period. he was also one of the best and most physical nfl linebackers to have ever played the game. as such, his jerseys should reflect this - and do.

and, of course, the sleeves are not the same...

jmo.

[byergo]

Can you not clearly see from the provided images that: 1. The colors on the sleeve (white and gold) are an EXACT color match to the rest of the jersey because it is in fact the exact same paint (not a different type of material which would be nearly impossible to perfectly match a died dull fabric color to a slick painted on color), and 2. if it were an elastic material it would fit tighter (IE--there wouldn't be a gap as shown in the bottom pic) and it would appear much thicker as well (not paper thin like the painted on dazzle cloth material which is correct)?

I've seen how these things can turn south so I'll stop commenting now. I just wanted to point out some innacuracies in a polite manner, and again welcome anyone who desires to view the jersey in person.

I'll leave you with: do your own homework and bid if you are confident in the jersey (as I was after I conducted my own research). The jersey may or may not be in one of the attached images, but there is in my opinion a very strong style match which is why I posted the images for comparison purposes.

Have a great and safe holiday weekend!

[CollectGU]

Can you not clearly see from the provided images that: 1. The colors on the sleeve (white and gold) are an EXACT color match to the rest of the jersey because it is in fact the exact same paint (not a different type of material which would be nearly impossible to perfectly match a died dull fabric color to a slick painted on color), and 2. if it were an elastic material it would fit tighter (IE--there wouldn't be a gap as shown in the bottom pic) and it would appear much thicker as well (not paper thin like the painted on dazzle cloth material which is correct)?

You've never seen elasticized/cuffed sleeves? Here is an Andre Rison with ribbed/elasticized/ cuffed (wahtever you want to cal it) sleeves. That is what we are talking about, and what Thomas appears to be wearing in the photos:

[aeneas01]

byergo - first let me just say that i think you've done a great job fielding questions without becoming defensive and, because of it, i don't think this topic has begun to turn south as you mentioned.

with that said, i' not sure i understand your following comment:

"2. if it were an elastic material it would fit tighter (IE--there wouldn't be a gap as shown in the bottom pic) and it would appear much thicker as well (not paper thin like the painted on dazzle cloth material which is correct)?"

although you doubt that the sleeve contains elastic material at the striping area, the photo you included in your ad shows just that. are you saying that this photo doesn't appear to have elastic at the striping area - that it appears to match your jersey?

[byergo]

This will be my final comment on this thread since you asked a reasonable and direct question which I don't want to give the appearance of avoiding but I'll not revisit the thread. Thanks in advance, and I'm sure you understand my position on that.

The pics you are showing to me (in my opinion) very obviously demonstrate that like I said there is no elastic present.

The Rison jersey has elastic, and you can see the minor color difference, they jersey looks pulled/bunched by the elastic, and the elastic bands are the same width. The Thomas jersey doesn't have the same bunchy/pulled look, the bands are not the exact same dimension, the colors are EXACTLY the same with no minor color difference because it is in fact the same painted surface with the same color paint from the same batch.

I should have called this an early career representation rather than rookie era, but I think you get my point. It's very early career and rare. The older the better as it's more likely that it predates the era in which players wore so many jerseys intentionally for resale purposes.

And I see you found a pic that represents more hit marks on the shirt, but I can also post a bunch of them that don't, but I'm not looking for a pissing match and we all know big stars wear numerous jerseys in their career and they are not all exactly the same so it is what it is. Some have more wear, which is wonderful, and some have game use but not hammered with use.

Anyway, I'm not the collecting God or anything so feel the way you want to feel, research however you please, and buy what makes you happy. It doesn't bother me that much that you don't like it, or don't agree or whatever, just wanted to have the other opinion advanced as well.

Take care and have a great holiday!

[Jags Fan Dan]

I commend everyone for keeping this thread lively yet amicable. I'm not trying to fan a fire or anything, but I second the notion that any pics that could be posted of the use that the jersey exhibits, even if it is minor tearing or scuffing or whatever, would greatly help the cause, which is selling the jersey for the most money possible so you can buy your business. And I wish you the very best of luck in that!