Cal Ripken Game Worn Jersey on Ebay???

[mr.miracle]

Hello Forum Readers:

Attached is a current ebay listing for what is reportedly a game worn 1988 Cal Ripken Jr. jersey. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...Category=60597

There are a number of questions asked already about the jersey and the seller apparently knows very little or is at least coming across that way. My question is, I have attached pictures of an authentic game worn 1988 road Ripken with the EBW jersey memorial lettering. If you look at the ebay jersey it looks like the exterior Rawlings tag has either been removed or was never on the outside in the first place. The Road 88 Ripken clearly has the Rawlings tag on the outside of the jersey as you will also note it also has the 2 inch extra length tag that is a prominent part of Cal's uniforms. The jersey in the auction is missing this extra tag. The Jersey in the ebay auction appears to have the tag stiched on the inside in reverse of where it would normally appear. I have not seen this with any authentic Ripken jersey before. It seems to me that this could have been a doctored jersey as a result although it does not appear from the pics in the auction that the nameplate has been altered in any way. I am wondering if this was either a retail jersey since 88 is the first year I believe that these became available and someone altered the tagging to make it look like a Ripken game worn/issued or perhaps there is some other explanation that I am missing.

The seller says it has game wear but the jersey looks untouched from the photos as I cannot see any visible wear and there is no puckering around the tagging unlike the 88 road Ripken that has visible fraying around the numbers and nameplate and puckering around the tagging.

Any feedback would be appreciate.

Thanks

.

RIPKEN 1988 001.jpg

RIPKEN 1988 002.jpg

RIPKEN 1988 003.jpg

RIPKEN 1988 004.jpg

[beantown]

Brett,

As the seller of this jersey, I find this posting to be ignorant and a violation of forum rule #16, as you have not contacted me regarding your concerns...

"There are a number of questions asked already about the jersey and the seller apparently knows very little or is at least coming across that way"

-Not one individual has asked a question about this jersey, I created the Q&A response as part of my original auction listing....are you are kidding me with this statement?

"My question is, I have attached pictures of an authentic game worn 1988 road Ripken with the EBW jersey memorial lettering. If you look at the ebay jersey it looks like the exterior Rawlings tag has either been removed or was never on the outside in the first place. The Road 88 Ripken clearly has the Rawlings tag on the outside of the jersey as you will also note it also has the 2 inch extra length tag that is a prominent part of Cal's uniforms. The jersey in the auction is missing this extra tag. The Jersey in the ebay auction appears to have the tag stiched on the inside in reverse of where it would normally appear. I have not seen this with any authentic Ripken jersey before. It seems to me that this could have been a doctored jersey as a result although it does not appear from the pics in the auction that the nameplate has been altered in any way"

-I CLEARLY state in the auction listing that the tagging appears to be all original, yet you think it was removed from the outside and sewn in the inside? A little research and you would have seen 1988 MLB gamers with tagging on the inside as well on the outside of the jersey. Moreover, you are going to use one Ripken Jr. exemplar and base your conclusions off that one jersey? What information/documentation do you have to
substantiate that this '88 Road Ripken you are referring to is 100% game used by Ripken? I don't know the variations of tail tagging that were used on '88 Ripken gamers, if any, and for you to comment specifically on what it should or should not be is pure speculation on your behalf.

"The seller says it has game wear but the jersey looks untouched from the photos as I cannot see any visible wear and there is no puckering around the tagging unlike the 88 road Ripken that has visible fraying around the numbers and nameplate and puckering around the tagging"

- I stated the jersey shows wear, but I don't know whether that is true game wear or wear and tear on a jersey that may or may have not been mishandled over the last 20 years . Again, you are basing your conclsusions on one Ripken Jr. exemplar, so EVERY Ripken should show the same wear?

I have done my best to accuratley describe this jersey as I simply don't know whether or not it was worn by Ripken in 1988....it's disturbing to have someone like you makes comments/statements that are untrue and unfounded...next time, please ask questions directly to me, before you go public...I will do my best to address them....

-Chris

[mr.miracle]

Brett,

As the seller of this jersey, I find this posting to be ignorant and a violation of forum rule #16, as you have not contacted me regarding your concerns...

"There are a number of questions asked already about the jersey and the seller apparently knows very little or is at least coming across that way"

-Not one individual has asked a question about this jersey, I created the Q&A response as part of my original auction listing....are you are kidding me with this statement?

"My question is, I have attached pictures of an authentic game worn 1988 road Ripken with the EBW jersey memorial lettering. If you look at the ebay jersey it looks like the exterior Rawlings tag has either been removed or was never on the outside in the first place. The Road 88 Ripken clearly has the Rawlings tag on the outside of the jersey as you will also note it also has the 2 inch extra length tag that is a prominent part of Cal's uniforms. The jersey in the auction is missing this extra tag. The Jersey in the ebay auction appears to have the tag stiched on the inside in reverse of where it would normally appear. I have not seen this with any authentic Ripken jersey before. It seems to me that this could have been a doctored jersey as a result although it does not appear from the pics in the auction that the nameplate has been altered in any way"

-I CLEARLY state in the auction listing that the tagging appears to be all original, yet you think it was removed from the outside and sewn in the inside? A little research and you would have seen 1988 MLB gamers with tagging on the inside as well on the outside of the jersey. Moreover, you are going to use one Ripken Jr. exemplar and base your conclusions off that one jersey? What information/documentation do you have to
substantiate that this '88 Road Ripken you are referring to is 100% game used by Ripken? I don't know the variations of tail tagging that were used on '88 Ripken gamers, if any, and for you to comment specifically on what it should or should not be is pure speculation on your behalf.

"The seller says it has game wear but the jersey looks untouched from the photos as I cannot see any visible wear and there is no puckering around the tagging unlike the 88 road Ripken that has visible fraying around the numbers and nameplate and puckering around the tagging"

- I stated the jersey shows wear, but I don't know whether that is true game wear or wear and tear on a jersey that may or may have not been mishandled over the last 20 years . Again, you are basing your conclsusions on one Ripken Jr. exemplar, so EVERY Ripken should show the same wear?

I have done my best to accuratley describe this jersey as I simply don't know whether or not it was worn by Ripken in 1988....it's disturbing to have someone like you makes comments/statements that are untrue and unfounded...next time, please ask questions directly to me, before you go public...I will do my best to address them....

-Chris

Hello Chris:

I did not contact you because the listing seemed to indicate that there was no additional information available regarding the jersey's background and or to answer any questions that I might have about the jersey. The jersey I have shown pictures of comes from my personal data base of Ripken photos and happens to be a Ripken that was sold by another forum member several months ago. It was examined by Dave Bushing and Troy Kinnunen at SCD and graded an 8. In my opinion is it solid so that is why I used it as a reference point. There are many knowledgable Ripken collectors on this forum I was seeking their opinion on it. I am stating a fact that I have never seen tagging like this on another Ripken jersey and I have been collecting and logging photos of Ripken game used items for 20 plus years.

As for the Q & A section, it appeared to be one between a seller and potential buyers that I have utilized myself on ebay on more than one occassion. My apologies for mistaking this with one that you created on your very own. I am not sure exactly what I would have asked you the seller or any seller for that matter that would have provided info. to me. Am I to assume that a potential seller who lists in their own auction that they don't have any additional information on the jersey in terms of background, LOA's, How it was obtained, when it was obtained etc. to provide additional photos of known Ripken exemplars and expect them to provide them??? Most Ripken jersey's have at this stage had the 2 inch extra length tagging in the jersey. Yours is missing so this is an obvious question that I would raise.

I would base my example on other Ripken's if they are available. I am not familiar with any additional Ripken's from the 1988 year. As you may or may not know, authentic Ripken jersey's are about as common as Martians on the white house lawn. It is my opinion that the road Ripken I referenced is authentic as is apparent based on the research from Dave Bushing and Troy Kinnunen. My guess would be that most jersey's from that same year would be similar.

I was asking for additional feedback on the jersey as it was brought to my attention off of the forum. I apologize if my post angered you in some way as I am not sure why that would be however as I said, I have never seen a Ripken with the interior tagging that does not mean that jersey's were not made in that style for other players.

I do not believe that I violated rule 1782 subsection 85 page 428 on this or any forum because you stated clearly that this was the information that you had avialable. Again, I am not going to contact the seller of this auction or any auction and ask them to provide photographic exemplars of other period or same year jersey's for comparrison sake which is what I am specifically after here. If I had any specific questions related to this jersey or any auction for that matter that the seller could answer I certainly would ask them as I do numerous times. In this case there were none so I did not ask.

Thanks

[ironmanfan]

Hello Forum Readers:

Attached is a current ebay listing for what is reportedly a game worn 1988 Cal Ripken Jr. jersey. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...Category=60597

There are a number of questions asked already about the jersey and the seller apparently knows very little or is at least coming across that way. My question is, I have attached pictures of an authentic game worn 1988 road Ripken with the EBW jersey memorial lettering. If you look at the ebay jersey it looks like the exterior Rawlings tag has either been removed or was never on the outside in the first place. The Road 88 Ripken clearly has the Rawlings tag on the outside of the jersey as you will also note it also has the 2 inch extra length tag that is a prominent part of Cal's uniforms.

While I can't offer my opinion as to this items authenticity (or lack thereof) without a physical inspection, I do want to offer that I own 5 1988 Oriole Game worn jerseys ( Cal Jr.-Road; Billy -Home/Road; Cal Sr.-Home & Orsulak-Road) and all have INTERIOR tagging similar to the offerred jersey.

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Chris:

I did not contact you because the listing seemed to indicate that there was no additional information available regarding the jersey's background and or to answer any questions that I might have about the jersey. The jersey I have shown pictures of comes from my personal data base of Ripken photos and happens to be a Ripken that was sold by another forum member several months ago. It was examined by Dave Bushing and Troy Kinnunen at SCD and graded an 8. In my opinion is it solid so that is why I used it as a reference point. There are many knowledgable Ripken collectors on this forum I was seeking their opinion on it. I am stating a fact that I have never seen tagging like this on another Ripken jersey and I have been collecting and logging photos of Ripken game used items for 20 plus years.

As for the Q & A section, it appeared to be one between a seller and potential buyers that I have utilized myself on ebay on more than one occassion. My apologies for mistaking this with one that you created on your very own. I am not sure exactly what I would have asked you the seller or any seller for that matter that would have provided info. to me. Am I to assume that a potential seller who lists in their own auction that they don't have any additional information on the jersey in terms of background, LOA's, How it was obtained, when it was obtained etc. to provide additional photos of known Ripken exemplars and expect them to provide them??? Most Ripken jersey's have at this stage had the 2 inch extra length tagging in the jersey. Yours is missing so this is an obvious question that I would raise.

I would base my example on other Ripken's if they are available. I am not familiar with any additional Ripken's from the 1988 year. As you may or may not know, authentic Ripken jersey's are about as common as Martians on the white house lawn. It is my opinion that the road Ripken I referenced is authentic as is apparent based on the research from Dave Bushing and Troy Kinnunen. My guess would be that most jersey's from that same year would be similar.

I was asking for additional feedback on the jersey as it was brought to my attention off of the forum. I apologize if my post angered you in some way as I am not sure why that would be however as I said, I have never seen a Ripken with the interior tagging that does not mean that jersey's were not made in that style for other players.

I do not believe that I violated rule 1782 subsection 85 page 428 on this or any forum because you stated clearly that this was the information that you had avialable. Again, I am not going to contact the seller of this auction or any auction and ask them to provide photographic exemplars of other period or same year jersey's for comparrison sake which is what I am specifically after here. If I had any specific questions related to this jersey or any auction for that matter that the seller could answer I certainly would ask them as I do numerous times. In this case there were none so I did not ask.

Thanks

Hello Brett,

Actually, here is the forum rule being referenced that everyone is expected to follow:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

Contrary to the "rule 1782 subsection 85 page 428" comment, this is not some obscure rule stated in some large manual. It is one of only a few rules we expect people to follow to prevent misunderstandings like the one that appears to be happening here. This is especially true given the comment in your initial post that the item "...could have been a doctored jersey" as well as your question marks in the thread's title. At this point, unless some reason can be suggested to keep this thread, I will delete it to prevent any potential misunderstandings that may arise due to the initial posting (the reason for the rule in the first place). We will also ask that the rules be followed going forward so the seller does have a chance to reply to any questions before the item is publicly questioned.

[clinton2828]

mr mir,
i sense in all your posts about ripken items that no one but yourself could own a real ripken item? he gave all the information about the jersey and dont see what is unclear?

Jealous?

[trsent]

I there is a big misunderstanding here.

The original poster figured since the seller had a question and answer section in their listing, instead of just stating facts which would have been less confusing, they figured they could come on this forum and question the item without contacting the seller since they must have felt their questions were answered in the listing's question and answer section.

It has been brought to their attention that they must contact the seller with their questions first, no matter if the seller posts a question and answer section of questions they asked and answered about their own jersey.

[mr.miracle]

Hello Brett,

Actually, here is the forum rule being referenced that everyone is expected to follow:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. (I believe that is what exactly I did in fact do here.) When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

Contrary to the "rule 1782 subsection 85 page 428" comment, this is not some obscure rule stated in some large manual. It is one of only a few rules we expect people to follow to prevent misunderstandings like the one that appears to be happening here. This is especially true given the comment in your initial post that the item "...could have been a doctored jersey" as well as your question marks in the thread's title. At this point, unless some reason can be suggested to keep this thread, I will delete it to prevent any potential misunderstandings that may arise due to the initial posting (the reason for the rule in the first place). We will also ask that the rules be followed going forward so the seller does have a chance to reply to any questions before the item is publicly questioned.

Hello Chris:

I appreciate the response. I was attempting to be a bit sarcastic I do admit and apologize for doing so. I am well aware of that rule although admitidely do not know the specific number of the rule as pointed out by the seller of the jersey. I still do not understand completely your point as I clearly stated that I did not contact the seller about the jersey because the seller himself in the auction stated

"(Q) Was this jersey worn by Cal Ripken in 1988?

(A) I don't know...the jersey has the identifying characherisitcs of a 1988 Ripken gamer, but I cannot guarantee it was worn by Ripken."

The seller further states in the auction listing heading

"Cal Ripken Orioles Game Worn Used Issued Home Jersey

Rawlings - Size 48 / Set 1 - 1988"

The question is, which is it game issued or game worn? Again, contacting the seller would seem to provide at this point no additional useful information to me. I was asking for examples of other 1988 Ripken jersey's or any opinions from anyone who might have seen one or have an example of one. My question marks in the original heading were based upon the fact that the seller himself lists the jersey as game worn used issued home jersey. This seems to be a perfectly logical question based upon the tagging of this jersey vs. exemplars of other Ripkens if available from that time frame.

How exactly is the seller in this case going to help me if I emailed him? If you can explain that please let me know because I had no questions that he would have been able to answer. The seller indicated that exact point last night in his response when he stated "I don't know the variations of tail tagging that were used on '88 Ripken gamers, if any, and for you to comment specifically on what it should or should not be is pure speculation on your behalf."

In fact, how does this seller know that it is "pure speculation on your behalf." when again, I have a solid exemplar provided for photo review against that jersey offered on ebay. Since I ONLY collect Cal Ripken Jr. game used items, I would suggest that I know a little something about what he did and did not use over the years.

I apologize if someone became offended by the original post. Everyone needs to take a bit of deep breath as it seems like people get so uptight about anything being questioned on this forum sometimes. I am sorry if I am a bit wary, but having witnessed probably something like 200 plus jersey's that were reportedly game worn by Cal Ripken Jr. over the past 20 years and I would say that maybe ten of those even came close to an authentic Ripken I tend to question everything. We have discussed on this forum numerous times how Cal generally kept everything game used from his career. I have personally seen about five game worn jersey's all early career of Cal's that show very solid to heavy use on the lettering, wash tag, etc. Based upon those numbers, I am going to seriously question anything reportedly game worn by Cal especially when it shows little or no use or wear on the tagging, numbers, letters etc.

I appreciate your concern and I am sorry if my post somehow offended anyone.

Thank You,

[mr.miracle]

mr mir,
i sense in all your posts about ripken items that no one but yourself could own a real ripken item? he gave all the information about the jersey and dont see what is unclear?

Jealous?

There are a number of truely spectacular Ripken game worn items out there in private collections, in museums, in Cal's own possession. I could not possibly own them all or even hope to ever own them all. I am glad that Cal continues to maintain control over much of his own inventory from his career as it makes for much less of a glut in the industry and makes collecting him that much more fun. The HOF and other venues should have these game worn items on display for all to view and share in.

I know several other prominent Ripken collectors well and am glad we each share the same interest. I am not jealous in any way shape or form. The example I posted of the other 88 Ripken is a fine jersey that some collector has in their possession. I own a number of Ripken game bats but only one jersey. I generally stay away from game worn jersey's for two reasons. One, Ripken jersey's are impossible to find at least authentic ones. Two, I don't trust what is out there as I have seen way too many fraudulent Ripken jersey's over the years.

What is unclear is whether or not the jersey is or is not an authentic game worn Ripken Jersey. Game Issued Ripken's sell for $400 - $1000 generally. Game worn Ripken's sell for over $4k and up depending on the year. Big difference out there. Since I have an example of a tagged Ripken from 88 that does not match the seller's example, I am trying to determine if both styles of tagging were used. As Ironmanfan pointed out, they apparently were as he has a 1988 Road Ripken jersey in his own collection that matches the sellers at least in terms of tagging. I am not sure what is unclear about that??? People post jersey's all the time with question marks that will end up selling for a fraction of the cost of an authentic Ripken game worn jersey. If I have access to one style that is tagged differently than what is offered for sale and I am confident regarding the authenticity of the exemplar offered, naturally, I am going to ask questions in relation to whether any other collector has owned a similar jersey or seen tagging distinctly different in two different jerseys from the same player from the same year.

Thanks

[Danny899]

[quote=mr.miracle;92147]Hello Chris:

I apologize if someone became offended by the original post. Everyone needs to take a bit of deep breath as it seems like people get so uptight about anything being questioned on this forum sometimes.

It seems like you're the only one getting uptight and offended here. Especially since you started the post. Follow the clear forum rules and don't get upset when the seller (Beantown)stands up for himself and calls you out on your accusations.