AWA85 - Banned???

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

When you own a business, you sometimes have to make tough decisions and sometimes those decisions have adverse results.

Chris made a decision he says was due to breaking rules. He doesn't need a judge or jury to say he was right and maybe he will change his mind down the road or maybe he won't.

The bigger problem as I see it which I stated before are key members who aren't participating to the magnitude they were before.

Any thoughts on why that may be the case?

Hello Andrew,

First, regarding the banning, sending unsolicited emails to members who have posted their email addresses on the site is wrong, period. I have already received comments that people are now reluctant to post their email addresses on the site because they don't want to receive emails for things they haven't requested. This is not good for the site or those who participate. If anyone does it in the future the result will be the same. In fact, I have already received an email from Adam apologizing for what he did and admitting it was wrong. I applaud him for being mature enough to admit is mistake and apologizing.

As for the posting on the site, I don't think the site as slowed down nor do the site statistics suggest anything along those lines. In fact, at the National I have had tons of people (including people who only read the forum and don't post) tell me what we are doing is the greatest thing for the hobby. In fact, someone from the FBI did introduce himself to me at the show but only to tell me that they read this forum and it has helped them understand more about the hobby. Personally, I think the efforts of those who participate here have helped take the hobby in a positive direction that will not be reversed and I respect everyone who posts here in an effort to make that happen.

Please let me know if that answers your question.

[allstarsplus]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

Chris - I was actually sticking up for you as you made a business decision and my comment was "adverse" pertaining to certain members that seemed to be turned off to the decision.

This site has been invaluable to so many in the hobby.

My bigger concern is the reduced role taken by many that I viewed as great assets and the list is probably larger than the 3 I named.

I posted several weeks ago "where is Rudy" and nobody responded. I think he posted recently, but Chris, aren't you concerned that we have seen a reduced role by some very knowledgeable members?

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

I think that it was Mrs. Marblethorpe in the library with a letter opener.

[frikativ54]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

In fact, I have already received an email from Adam apologizing for what he did and admitting it was wrong. I applaud him for being mature enough to admit is mistake and apologizing.

While AWA85 was apologetic in his email to me, you are ignoring the larger issue here. For one mistake, you are banning a 23-year-old collector from this forum for life. Young collectors are the future of this hobby, and by alienating him, you are alienating me. Young people make mistakes. In my life, I have done far worse things than sending unsolicited emails. Had people reacted to me with the same draconian measures as you did to Adam, I would have grown more resentful than penitent.

I made some huge spending errors on eBay when I was 14; I got in big trouble for them. However, my parents did not take eBay away from me for life. I got it back in a year and a half, and I have not made one mistake since. Personal experiences aside, the point is that you are going to the extreme. You may be stressed from the National, but be a man and admit that you are being too harsh. All you need to do is say that you are wrong, give out a short suspension, and let's move on. For the benefit of this forum, I think you owe it to a penitent and regular participator to commute AWA85's banning for life.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

Chris - I was actually sticking up for you as you made a business decision and my comment was "adverse" pertaining to certain members that seemed to be turned off to the decision.

This site has been invaluable to so many in the hobby.

My bigger concern is the reduced role taken by many that I viewed as great assets and the list is probably larger than the 3 I named.

I posted several weeks ago "where is Rudy" and nobody responded. I think he posted recently, but Chris, aren't you concerned that we have seen a reduced role by some very knowledgeable members?

Hello Andrew,

I have noticed Rudy has posted recently and I trust that will led to useful information for members. I have also noticed others who post here that also provide a great asset to collectors. There are certainly different personalities on the site and I'm sure different reasons why some members are more active at times than others.

Overall, I think this is the greatest place for collectors to come for help in the hobby and I think those who give their time to help educate each other deserve nothing but admiration. If I tried to list the names of those here that are worthy of praise it would take quite some time. Suffice it to say, there are tons of people here that have helped make this hobby a better place for everyone and we should all be grateful for their participation. While I wish everyone would post as much as possible, I trust the overall affect is that this site continues to be a positive influence in the hobby. From what I am seeing, I believe that is the case.

[ndevlin]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

My opinion on this subject, which probably doesnt matter anyways, is that banning a member for this sounds to be a little overboard. A slap on the hand and a suspension for a month or so would have gotten the point across, and sure would have pleased everyone. Now the member, that has no history of causing trouble, is now forced to go elsewhere. Thats sad.

[allstarsplus]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

Hello Andrew,

I have noticed Rudy has posted recently

there are tons of people here that have helped make this hobby a better place for everyone and we should all be grateful for their participation.

Chris - I also noted Rudy posted recently

I think he posted recently

and hope he starts a few threads.

Since this isn't a Blog and is a Forum, we have to rely on participants posting good information.

You say

I don't think the site as slowed down nor do the site statistics suggest anything along those lines.

and I am a stats guy but you have to read between the lines as the quality of posts in my opinion isn't as good as it was a couple of years ago. You can agree or disagree.

If it was my business, I would want some good honest feedback from Senior Members on how the Forum can improve and what it would take to get some "key" members back.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

While AWA85 was apologetic in his email to me, you are ignoring the larger issue here. For one mistake, you are banning a 23-year-old collector from this forum for life.

Hello Leslie,

I'm not sure where the "for life" comment is coming from. There is not some function in the system that dictates a "for life" banning where a member can never be reinstated.

As I said, I, for one, was very impressed by the maturity of Adam and appreciate the email me sent to us. This will be discussed among the moderators to determine the appropriate response.

Contrary to conspiracy theories, I think everyone who knows those of us involved with this site understand everything we (along with the members) have done to try to help this hobby. We try to help everyone as much as we can and we will use our best judgement to continue to try to do so.

[metsbats]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

I received an email from Adam regarding the other site today. I found no offense to his email and thanked him for the info. In fact I had joined the other forum months ago just to broaden my horizons and meet other collectors who may not be part of GUU.

This is not the first time I received unsolicited emails from other GUU members. I've had offers in the past to buy items and folks emailing me directly with questions about certain items. I honestly didn't even know it was illegal to email members outside of the GUU platform.

While I personally didnt not take offense to Adam's unsolicited email other folks may not feel the same way and wish to safeguard themselves from unsolicited emails which is the reason for the rule.

I think Adam acted with no malice intended and just was trying to help.

-David

[trsent]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

Hello Leslie,

I'm not sure where the "for life" comment is coming from. There is not some function in the system that dictates a "for life" banning where a member can never be reinstated.

As I said, I, for one, was very impressed by the maturity of Adam and appreciate the email me sent to us. This will be discussed among the moderators to determine the appropriate response.

Contrary to conspiracy theories, I think everyone who knows those of us involved with this site understand everything we (along with the members) have done to try to help this hobby. We try to help everyone as much as we can and we will use our best judgement to continue to try to do so.

So hopefully Adam will be reinstated next week and this will be a brief lesson learned with no future issues.

[chicagoglen]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

My 2 Cents.

I like many here, view daily but post rarely.

I have a few things to say regarding the issue at hand.

First off, the board is only as valuable as the members that participate. MODERATORS PLEASE REMEMBER THIS.

The for sale section brought a lot of people here to view your site. By eliminating this YOU HAVE CREATED YOUR OWN COMPETITION THAT WILL PROVIDE THIS FOR FREE.

Finally, we all know YOU made a mistake of banning a kid today and are hiding behind the guise of forum rules.

Sad day. Fix it and move on.

Glen

[cohibasmoker]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

The reason AWA85 was banned was because he took email addresses off the GUU site and sent those members an unsolicited email. While I will not comment on the ethics of such behavior, I will tell you that, not only did we receive feedback from a number of members who did not appreciate receiving the email, such actions will not be tolerated on GUU.

Contrary to the posts on this thread which, of course, were made without an understanding of the situation, we do not ban members without just cause.

If anyone has any questions they can feel free to email me directly.

Chris,

As my posts will show, I have always supported your decisions of the "For Sale" section. Was AWA85 wrong for doing what he did? Perhaps but why not do what you guys have always done in the past - take the high road.

To me, your actions seem like something a auction house would do to retaliate against a forum member if they wrote a negative post against them on this forum.

I got a email from Dave and the way I see it, if he wants to start another forum, so be it. We are all trying to make the hobby better and a little competition is always a good thing. Just rememeber this, when someone opens another forum, the model for their website will be copied after your website because you guys are far and away the leaders in the industry.

In closing, please re-think your decision. Banned is one thing and a suspension would be another.

Jim

[metsbats]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

Jim,

Please clarify which Dave is starting another forum. It's actually Tim I believe we are referring to.

Great point that imitation if the highest form of flattery.

Another point I'd like to make is that Tim's forum is primarily a bat forum while the GUF covers all game used items in all sports. While the format may be the same the GUF's scope will always be larger as it casts a larger net and attracts a larger diverse audience.

David

[3arod13]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

I also received an email from Adam about the other website and thought nothing of it. Actually, I had already joined that site. Even if I wasn't a member, I still wouldn't have thought anything about it. I now who Adam is, so not a bid deal to me.

If Adam would have taken emails from GUU to advertise or inform people about his own business or another area or subject (not sports or game used related), then I can understand. However, people to have a right not to be contacted, so I do understand Chris' point also.

However, Adam apologized. Took responsibility for his actions. Why not reinstate him now?

[3arod13]

Re: AWA85 - Banned???

I also received an email from Adam about the other website and thought nothing of it. Actually, I had already joined that site. Even if I wasn't a member, I still wouldn't have thought anything about it. I now who Adam is, so not a bid deal to me.

If Adam would have taken emails from GUU to advertise or inform people about his own business or another area or subject (not sports or game used related), then I can understand. However, people to have a right not to be contacted, so I do understand Chris' point also.

However, Adam apologized. Took responsibility for his actions. Why not reinstate him now?

I know who Adam is, so not a big deal to me.