Barry Bonds Issues

[Rob L]

I said it before and I will say it again in my eyes ROGER MARIS still holds the record all other records should have an asterik.


And your wrong about baseball turning there back cuz dont forget Maris's record had an asterik next to it until I believe 1990 or something like that.

So if they could do it to maris from 1961 to 1990, they can do it to Mcgwire and Bonds.

Untrue. Baseball's image has been so tarnished after the 1994 strike, Selig will do anything to keep fan interest. In addition, the Maris issue was eventually resolved. The asterik was made by the commisioners office because they were homers for Ruth and only wanted Mantle to surpass it. The asterik was removed and it just fits into the whole era discussion, ie. the 154 game era vs 162 game era. Frankly, passing Ruth now is not a big deal because the it is a 162 game season. I think my rambling is becoming incoherent at this point.

BTW, your right, Maris is still the king!!! Although the pitching was diluted in 1961, their weren't any strength enhancing drugs (that we are aware of) and the fences were further away.

Rob L

[Nathan]

I believe that possession of anabolic steroids without a legal prescription is a federal offense, and that anabolic steroids themselves are a substance in the same classifications as heroin, cocaine, crack, and a whole host of other stuff. Just because MLB didn't have their own anti-steroid policy doesn't mean that the federal government hasn't had their own. The reason that the FBI and DEA became involved in the BALCO case, to the point of having these various trials in federal couirt, is because of the fact that possession of certain substances (steroids, HGH, etc) is a federal offense and a serious one at that.

Just because MLB wants to pussyfoot around the issue doesn't mean that everything is all hunky-dory. Does this mean they should asterisk everything? No, it doesn't, because of the fact that means that MLB is taking an official stance on a player's guilt. Bonds would probably sue in federal court to have any and all asterisks removed anyway, since it would be impossible (and unlawful) to star his career marks while not tagging anyone else's.

[suave1477]

Well if you read my post i did say McGwire also!!! and those 2 are the most 2 that i am aware of that were able to break records due to roids, and if they're other players that broke records due to some time of enhancement drug then put asteriks next to them all. Barry Bonds can't sue a dime out of anyone if that was the case I am sure Maris would have tried at some point to appeal his asterik and to the best of my knowledge he did not. I am not saying he didn't at all i am just saying to the best of my knowledge.

[Nathan]

suave,

I did read your post. Going after McGwire and officially staining him (as putting an asterisk is) would be based on nothing more than rumors, innuendo, and hearsay. Until there is something more substantial on McGwire (which there probably never will be), then there's no way to star his name either.

For MLB to officially stain Bonds (I can't stand Bonds, so I'm not in his corner on anything) without aggressively investigating every other player who put on an MLB uniform duiring his career is a sure way to get dragged into federal court.

To me, retroactively punishing players or teams after the fact reeks of the old communist mentality; how many thousands of people were officially made to have never existed by (after being milled) having their personal records destroyed, images airbrushed from photos, and so on. It's like the NCAA going back and saying that Michigan's Final Four appearances never happened; they were there plain as day.

[suave1477]

Nathan i hear what your saying you can't take away what everyone has already witnessed, your right about they cant interogate every player during his seasons of playing but then again they didnt break records either!! but i do understand your point i am just truley unhappy that it wasnt broken by someone with natural ability to do it to begin with. Now there is the possiblity he could even brake Aarons record don't you think that is unfair.

As far as you saying staining players. What about Maris his record had a stain for 30 years and died before it was even removed do you think that was fair. Life is unfair so let Bonds and McGwire feel some of that unfairity...

Think of it like this by not doing anything about it your staining the history of baseball ( forget just one player how about all of baseball )

[byergo]

The real "King" is Mickey Mantle who was dramatically better than Maris and batted behind him, which allowed Maris to see tons more pitches than Mantle and get intentionally walked exactly ZERO times during the 1961 season. To bad Mickey didn't get to set the record, as his performance was clearly better.

[trsent]

Don't forget, Sammy Sosa may have taken performance enhancing drugs and though he never set a record, he did pass them all.

I like the ruling, "A season is a season."

Next they will come up with, "A season is a season, even if there was enhancement drugs possibly used, they were not against the rules of our sport at the time even though they were against the rules of most other major sports."

I do believe Hulk Hogan's records should be shredded and Vince McMahon should refund all customer who ever paid to see him work or buy his toys or buy his video games or buy his pay-per-views should be refunded because Hulk must have used them.

Oh wait, did anyone see Vince McMahon's picture on the cover of Muscle & Fitness this month? He must be on something:

[suave1477]

Byergo I do agree Mickey was king but dont forget it was Roger who put him on that thrown, just as much Mantle was great Maris helped mantle get to that level.

[Rob L]

I said it before and I will say it again in my eyes ROGER MARIS still holds the record all other records should have an asterik.


And your wrong about baseball turning there back cuz dont forget Maris's record had an asterik next to it until I believe 1990 or something like that.

So if they could do it to maris from 1961 to 1990, they can do it to Mcgwire and Bonds.

Doing it to McGwire and Bonds years later is doubtful. First, there was no evidence at that time that they were on 'roids and their can never be. Second, the asterik was placed on Maris' record immediately, they didn't evaluate it 3 to 7 years later and decide to put an asterik by it.

Bonds may be easier to prove that he was using, depending on this latest evidence (again, it is heresay at today). McGwire has never been proven nor is their any evidence, other than Canseco. Since baseball has blackballed Canseco, it becomes word against word and baseball will always side with Mcgwire.

[trsent]

Byergo I do agree Mickey was king but dont forget it was Roger who put him on that thrown, just as much Mantle was great Maris helped mantle get to that level.

Ok, whatever, so your point is that Mickey Mantle was nothing without Roger Maris?

How few seasons did Maris play with Mantle? One year they pushed each other? Mantle was a staple of greatness during his era, with or without Roger Maris.

There was one better player I feel during that era, and his name is Willie Mays. He was the only one to play at the same level, but his place in history will always be behind Mantle, which is not right but it is what it is.