Principles vs. Price

[Jags Fan Dan]

I have just come into a situation where an item that I was bidding on was in a "Private" auction with all bidders identities hidden. I knew the whole time (due to past conversations I have had with the seller about the item) the price he wanted for it. Plus there had been a reserve price auction on the item previously and reserve was never met and it was offered to me at the price the seller wanted for it. So he put it up this time with no reserve but "private" auction. I knew this was ripe for some shill bidding.

So I put in a bid just below what I knew he wanted to get for the item. Sure enough I was outbid at the very last second, and sure enough less than 24 hours later here comes the second chance offer. Now, the item is nice, and the price is probably fair enough, but I am 99% sure that the seller bid this thing up or had someone do it for him. Do I buy this item, or do I refuse on principle alone? My gut says don't buy it. But I really would like to have the item...

[corsairs22]

Re: Principles vs. Price

It would depend on how hard it is to get another one from someone else. If it's rare, I would disregard the seller's tactics and focus on the fact that the price is "fair enough." If it's likely that I can get another one later for a better price or at least a similar one, then I would hold off. Mark

[joelsabi]

Re: Principles vs. Price

I have just come into a situation where an item that I was bidding on was in a "Private" auction with all bidders identities hidden. I knew the whole time (due to past conversations I have had with the seller about the item) the price he wanted for it. Plus there had been a reserve price auction on the item previously and reserve was never met and it was offered to me at the price the seller wanted for it. So he put it up this time with no reserve but "private" auction. I knew this was ripe for some shill bidding.

So I put in a bid just below what I knew he wanted to get for the item. Sure enough I was outbid at the very last second, and sure enough less than 24 hours later here comes the second chance offer. Now, the item is nice, and the price is probably fair enough, but I am 99% sure that the seller bid this thing up or had someone do it for him. Do I buy this item, or do I refuse on principle alone? My gut says don't buy it. But I really would like to have the item...

not sure what price is given for second chance offers.

if its at the winning bid price, i would wait for it to be relisted.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Principles vs. Price

The second chance offers are the second highest bid, so if you are shilling, you are getting the maximum bid of the "real" highest bidder.

[David]

Re: Principles vs. Price

Ask the seller for the list of the bidders, ala take digital photo of the screen where the bidders are listed (bidder id's are shown for the seller). If there was no shilling, I believe most sellers would comply as there's nothing to hide.

[helmets]

Re: Principles vs. Price

This same exact thing has happened to me on football helmets. It happened twice on the same helmet. I did not accept the second chance offer either time as I was pissed. I sent an email to the seller and stated if he didn't bid on his own helmet, perhaps it would sell. He stated that the winning bidder did not follow through on his bid, yet the second chance offer came fairly soon after the auction ended - both times. It finally sold "again" recently, and I am waiting for it to be relisted again.

[Mr.3000]

Re: Principles vs. Price

If you feel there was "funny business" going on, I say go with your gut and avoid the item...provided it's not a rare piece that you may never see again.

[David]

Re: Principles vs. Price

Do as you wish, but remember that a seller who is willing to cheat you in one way is willing to cheat you in other ways. For example, sellers who are dishonest about the bidding (shilling), are often also dishonest when describing the item or about returns/refunds.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Principles vs. Price

I have just come into a situation where an item that I was bidding on was in a "Private" auction with all bidders identities hidden. I knew the whole time (due to past conversations I have had with the seller about the item) the price he wanted for it. Plus there had been a reserve price auction on the item previously and reserve was never met and it was offered to me at the price the seller wanted for it. So he put it up this time with no reserve but "private" auction. I knew this was ripe for some shill bidding.

So I put in a bid just below what I knew he wanted to get for the item. Sure enough I was outbid at the very last second, and sure enough less than 24 hours later here comes the second chance offer. Now, the item is nice, and the price is probably fair enough, but I am 99% sure that the seller bid this thing up or had someone do it for him. Do I buy this item, or do I refuse on principle alone? My gut says don't buy it. But I really would like to have the item...

Dan, I can't tell you how many times I've received 2nd chance offers. For me, I always say to myself, do I really, really want the item? If that answer is Yes, I'll go ahead and buy it.

If I'm lukewarn, I'll look at the final price and eliminate the high bidder's price and then go ahead and contact the seller and offer him my bid, less the high bidder's price. For example, if an item sold for $200.00 and my bid was $100.00 but the high bidder bumped the price up to $200.00, I'd only offer the seller $100.00. Sometimes they take it, sometimes they don't.

With eBay, there isn't any sense crying over spilled milk because tomorrow's another day and eventually, you'll find something else and forget about past losses.

As for "Private Auctions" I always list my auctions that way. No shrill bidding it's just the way I like to do it.

Jim

[jppopma]

Re: Principles vs. Price

I agree with Jim in offering the lower amount, but not my full bid. I actually take it a step further and will offer the amount that my bid would have been if not for the shill bidder.

Usually the shill bidder will be just one bid above your's for you to get the second chance offer as the next bidder in line. If you cancel out the shill bid, your winning bid would actually only be just above the bidder below you.

For example, say you get outbid at $210 on an item that you bid $200 on. When you placed the $200 bid, the auction was likely not right at that amount. Most likely, your bid was the $5 or $10 over the bidder......say $155. If the shill bidder had not came into play, that is the amount that you would have won the item for.

By giving in to the $200 second chance offer, you are really just awarding the seller an extra $45 for using the shill bidder to discover your high bid.

Then again, like the question was posed...do you stick to principle or is it an item that you don't mind paying top dollar for. For me that would be a case by case decision with me erring on avoidance.

Good luck Dan. I'm pretty sure if there was shill bidding involved it will be relisted. Only problem then is will it go higher than your 2nd chance offer in legit bidding....

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Principles vs. Price

Well, just to let anyone interested in the final outcome of my dilemma, I bought the item but made him throw in free shipping. The reasoning is two-fold:
1. Nice item at a fair price.
2. I have bought two items in the past from this seller and they were both nice items and easy deals.
I still think I was shilled, but I am looking past it on this one.

[B1SON]

Re: Principles vs. Price

Well, just to let anyone interested in the final outcome of my dilemma, I bought the item but made him throw in free shipping. The reasoning is two-fold:
1. Nice item at a fair price.
2. I have bought two items in the past from this seller and they were both nice items and easy deals.
I still think I was shilled, but I am looking past it on this one.

I think you did the right thing Dan! Good decision!

[trsent]

Re: Principles vs. Price

Well, just to let anyone interested in the final outcome of my dilemma, I bought the item but made him throw in free shipping. The reasoning is two-fold:
1. Nice item at a fair price.
2. I have bought two items in the past from this seller and they were both nice items and easy deals.
I still think I was shilled, but I am looking past it on this one.

What was the item and what did you pay?

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Principles vs. Price

For the seller's sake, I'd prefer not to say what the item was, because I guess it is possible that it wasn't shill bidding and I don't want any ill-will.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Principles vs. Price

For the seller's sake, I'd prefer not to say what the item was, because I guess it is possible that it wasn't shill bidding and I don't want any ill-will.

That a boy. No-one needs to know your business and as long as you are happy, that's all that matters.

Jim