GU's Holy Grail

[joelsabi]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

I agree that the original, handwritten rules - if they exist - belong in Cooperstown, too...but I still favor the ball.

After all, the rules have changed many, many times over the years, but the ball, despite minor changes in size, weight (and humidity ) is eternal, and as central to the game itself as anything could possibly be.

Does anyone know how to go about finding out the final results of the Halper auction, and who got that baseball?

was auctioned this off and what is there link? i may have a login to look up past auctions.

[joelsabi]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

Sotheby Auction

Lot 149 - The Alexander Cartwright Family Baseball and Related Letter (est. $25/35,000)realized $129,000.
* Possibly the very first baseball, sold to Greg Manning Auctions, Inc. for $129,000.

[bigtruck260]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

When I think of a "grail" - I imgaine something that a person would be willing to take a chance on death to acquire.

That being said...is there anything that has been stolen, recovered, and stolen again? Something that is more valuable than the Mona Lisa or is revered and identifiable to people outiside of the game? Cartwright Baseball? Yep. But not something the casual fan might have heard about. Might be the grail to some, but to others - it's just a jacked up ball.

Joe Jackson's bat? it's on eBay right now - there was a thread about it last week. It has been offered at $675,000 then went up to $1.5 mil. It's been there for well over a year...but no takers.

The Honus Wagner card? It's been owned by Mastro, Wal-Mart and a few guys who had the money to put it in a private display just to say they've had it. It's cool, and expensive - but it's probably been altered (read The Card) though it is legendary. For such a small piece of paper, it certainly is the "pound for pound" champion of sports memorabilia.

The single most identifiable figure in baseball has to be Babe Ruth. As a matter of fact, he has to be in the top 5 of most recognizeable figures to have ever lived. Surely there is a rare piece of undiscovered memorabilia out there related to Ruth that someone is pining for...some rare bat with home run hash-marks, or a lipstick stained Yanks jersey. Something that would bring home the legend of the Sultan. Something that makes even the most advanced collectors want to cash in retirement plans and sell their yachts.

[godwulf]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

Surely there is a rare piece of undiscovered memorabilia out there related to Ruth that someone is pining for...some rare bat with home run hash-marks, or a lipstick stained Yanks jersey. Something that would bring home the legend of the Sultan. Something that makes even the most advanced collectors want to cash in retirement plans and sell their yachts.

Sure, I think we can all conjure up images of things that might exist...I see that as being fundamentally different from items that we know exist.

For example, I'd give a lot for the baseball with which Wagner tagged Cobb in the mouth, as Cobb stole second in the first game of the 1908 World Series...maybe with some nice old bloodstains on it from Cobb's split lip.

[godwulf]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

Sotheby Auction

Lot 149 - The Alexander Cartwright Family Baseball and Related Letter (est. $25/35,000)realized $129,000.
* Possibly the very first baseball, sold to Greg Manning Auctions, Inc. for $129,000.

Thanks, joel. I'll have to do some websurfing around and try to find out whether "Greg Manning" still has it, or if they've since auctioned it.

You have to laugh at some of the "estimated" pre-auction values of certain items, such as the Cartwright ball. 25-35K? What were they thinking?

[joelsabi]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

As a matter of fact, he has to be in the top 5 of most recognizeable figures to have ever lived.

Maybe Jesus, Mona Lisa, Hitler, Budha, Einstein among others. I don't think baseball is that universal. I think even Jordan and Kobe is more recognizable than the Bambino.

[bigtruck260]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

Sure, I think we can all conjure up images of things that might exist...I see that as being fundamentally different from items that we know exist.

For example, I'd give a lot for the baseball with which Wagner tagged Cobb in the mouth, as Cobb stole second in the first game of the 1908 World Series...maybe with some nice old bloodstains on it from Cobb's split lip.

...the point I was trying to make was that a Holy Grail is something that you wish for, you search for, but rarely get or find. A few of us are lucky when something pops us, but most of us will never have that piece in our collection - and some might be lucky to ever see it.

If it is attainable, then it's not really a Grail.

[bigtruck260]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

Maybe Jesus, Mona Lisa, Hitler, Budha, Einstein among others. I don't think baseball is that universal. I think even Jordan and Kobe is more recognizable than the Bambino.

In Sports culture, sorry Joel. Babe was #3 behind Jordan and Ali as athlete of the century. Thanks for correcting me. Ruth was one of the first baseball players to tour Asia...so he certainly had a global noteriety long before it was chic.

[mdube16]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

I like the idea of Babe Ruths first game worn jersey.

[jwasserman]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

While I agree that Joe Jackson's Black Betsy has lost some its luster by floundering in the Ebay Store section for over a year, I can't think of another piece of equipment that is so storied and so singularly tied to another athlete. It's a bat that has taken on its persona. For holy grail pieces, this has my vote.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

[quote=bigtruck260;98504]In Sports culture, sorry Joel. Babe was #3 behind Jordan and Ali as athlete of the century. quote]


I disagree. I wonder how much they'll talk about Jordan 75 years after his last game? Babe raised sports stars to near-mythical public figures, pretty much all on his own. I can handle an argument about Ali, but not Jordan. In fact, I say Thorpe over Jordan.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[yanks12025]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

Ok,
I'm putting this out their for the third time. It has to be the jersey Lou Gehrig wore during his famous speech. Come on, you cant beat that. His speech is considered baseballs gettysburg address. Now if you have the letter lincoln wrote for the gettysburg address that is up their in presidential holy grail(I think the magic bullet used in the JFK assassination is number 1).

[joelsabi]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

[quote=earlywynnfan;98525]

In Sports culture, sorry Joel. Babe was #3 behind Jordan and Ali as athlete of the century. quote]


I disagree. I wonder how much they'll talk about Jordan 75 years after his last game? Babe raised sports stars to near-mythical public figures, pretty much all on his own. I can handle an argument about Ali, but not Jordan. In fact, I say Thorpe over Jordan.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Jordan association with his Nike Air Jordan has made Jordan relevant even after his retirement. Nike is just everywhere globally. Ask any grade school kid who is Jordan and they will know because some kid they know is wearing his shoes at school.

[jetersbatboy]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

How about the contract that sold Babe Ruth from the red sox to the YANKEES!!! STILL THINK IT HAS BE SOMETHING TO DO WITH CARTWRIGHT.

[bigtruck260]

Re: GU's Holy Grail

[quote=joelsabi;98529]

Jordan association with his Nike Air Jordan has made Jordan relevant even after his retirement. Nike is just everywhere globally. Ask any grade school kid who is Jordan and they will know because some kid they know is wearing his shoes at school.

OK....OK....OK -

Man, I should know better than to not list sources. The AP poll actually listed Ruth as numero uno: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ssat1.htm

I didn't come up with that on my own, so hopefully that ties down a little controversy from the peanut gallery.

Jordan's memorabilia is simply off the charts as far as legit pieces and price...but honestly, what would you rather own? Jordan's rookie jersey or Ruth's rookie jersey? I'll leave it at that.

As far as the global assosiation, Ruth was barnstorming Japan long before many other athletes had even thought of leaving the US for the promotion of thier sport - PAVING THE WAY for guys like Jordan.

In the end, it's a silly argument. We're talking about Holy Grails. Some folks like Jordan and some people like Ruth. I just suggested that something from Ruth that is impossible to find (like Bigfoot) is probably on some Yanks collector's list of things he would sell his soul for.