Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

[David]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

One thing I don't understand is why a collector intentionally breaking store rules and trying to get a signature for free or dirt cheap ($24 is dirt cheap even by eBay forged signature standards) is considered cute collecting behavior, but Bench chosing not to accomodate his ploy is boorish. As already noted, Bench may not have been allowed to sign anything other than books.

[David]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

As many know, astronaut Neil Armstrong is perhaps the toughest living celebrity signer, as he refuses to autograph. He used to autograph, but said he quit when he learned how many forgeries of his signature were for sale and how many people requested his autograph only so they could turn an a profit. He decided the autograph hobby wasn't something he was willing to participate in anymore.

[godwulf]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

As many know, astronaut Neil Armstrong is perhaps the toughest living celebrity signer, as he refuses to autograph. He used to autograph, but said he quit when he learned how many forgeries of his signature were for sale and how many people requested his autograph only so they could turn an a profit. He decided the autograph hobby wasn't something he was willing to participate in anymore.

It seems to me that if someone were genuinely concerned about their autograph being forged, they'd sign anything and everything, every chance they got and every time somebody asked - until their signature was essentially worthless as a "collectible" item. Everybody who wanted a Neil Armstrong autograph would have one, and if you didn't have one, you could pick one up for $9.99 on eBay.

As for worrying about what other people do with your autograph...again, if you want to minimize the profit motive, you increase the supply; it doesn't make any sense to refuse to sign anything, thereby vastly increasing the scarcity of your autograph, demand for same, and the motive to sell it for big bucks.

[Danny899]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

I know the original scenario mentioned here is a little different, but keep in mind that when celebrities are brought in for book signings, often they are NOT allowed to sign things other than their book. They are specifically there to represent the bookstore and a being paid under contract to do so.

Anthony,
Your post is right on the money. At nearly all of these book signings, there are plenty of signs stating in effect that no memorabilia will be signed other than the offered book. Even the ads leading up to the show usually indicate this rule. Yet there is always some knucklehead in line with a ball or a bat looking for a freebie. By the time they get up there, naturally a confrontation ensues leaving the athlete angry. Then you have to deal with him still steaming when it's your turn to get up there (by no fault of your own). As far as the original post goes, there is only one side of the story listed. I'm sure Mr. Bench could offer his version which really demands nothing more than, "Hey read the signs or I can only sign books." I've been to many shows where Bench has signed some quite valuable items for me and he has always shown himself to be friendly, accomodating and profesional.

[Nathan]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

As many know, astronaut Neil Armstrong is perhaps the toughest living celebrity signer, as he refuses to autograph. He used to autograph, but said he quit when he learned how many forgeries of his signature were for sale and how many people requested his autograph only so they could turn an a profit. He decided the autograph hobby wasn't something he was willing to participate in anymore.

In baseball, Dr. Mike Marshall won't sign anything except for one private signing a few years ago. Bill Corcoran out of Tampa apparently made an irresistable offer, so Marshall signed 100 baseballs.

If you see one, they sell for around $300 apiece, which is staggering considering that he's a fairly accessable 65-year-old in perfect health.

His philosophy is basically "I played baseball. Go get an autograph from someone that did something important."

[godwulf]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

His philosophy is basically "I played baseball. Go get an autograph from someone that did something important."

That's his prerogative, of course, but it sort of misses the whole concept and point of it being fun to collect autographs of people associated with something that you really enjoy - like Baseball.

Yes, a lot of things in life are more important than sports...we all recognize that. Given the choice of getting a baseball signed by a famous heart surgeon, or an astronaut, or even a President of the United States, and getting one signed by the backup outfielder on my favorite Baseball team - there's no question but that I'm going for the ballplayer.

I don't believe that makes me a shallow person, or someone who is confused about his priorities - it just makes me a Baseball fan.

[xpress34]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

It seems to me that if someone were genuinely concerned about their autograph being forged, they'd sign anything and everything, every chance they got and every time somebody asked - until their signature was essentially worthless as a "collectible" item. Everybody who wanted a Neil Armstrong autograph would have one, and if you didn't have one, you could pick one up for $9.99 on eBay.

As for worrying about what other people do with your autograph...again, if you want to minimize the profit motive, you increase the supply; it doesn't make any sense to refuse to sign anything, thereby vastly increasing the scarcity of your autograph, demand for same, and the motive to sell it for big bucks.

GodWulf -

While that reasoning sounds very plausible, it's actually very flawed when used in the context of a HOF player or very popular player, etc (also know as 'the exceptions to the rule')...

Examples: Mickey Mantle. I grew up in Dallas and Mantle worked the shows there in the late 80's and early 90's constantly. He has a TON of Authentic (whether Authenticated or not is another story) Autos out in the hobby. Hell, in the early 90's, local shops in dallas bought AUTO baseballs from him by the case (12 count) and they could be found for about $35 or so... his AUTO after his death surged and has never come back down.

Nolan Ryan. Ryan has oft been quoted as saying, "I will sign anything for anybody. Then when I'm gone, the auto won't be worth anything" (paraphrased - not exact word for word quote - you get the idea). While Nolan is taking the idea you expressed and putting it into action, the fact he is a HOFer and very popular has kept his AUTOs a pretty decent value. I mean look how many cards he signs for sets - and his auto is always one of the higher $$$ ones in the set. When he is gone, his autos - just like Mantle's - while undoubtedly skyrocket.

As far as Bench, I've never met the man - but I've heard conflicting stories - and I have been on the end of good and bad autograph stories myself while having friends tell me of completely opposite tales of their meetings with the same people I had experiences with.

And yes, it is generally the decision of the store owner/signing rep/etc to determine what can or cannot be signed at a specific event, although somes places do leave it up to the athlete.

Case in point - Matt Holliday was signing at Listen Up about a week and half ago on behalf of Sharp TV and they had special Topps cards made up for the signing. The 'handlers' said that the cards were what were supposed to be signed, but if Matt agreed to sign other items, they would allow it. Matt signed balls, bats, etc and even inscribed (he had already signed) my 2007 GU WS Hat - and verified it was the ONLY one he wore for all 4 games of the WS. Mike Schmidt on the other hand was at an event my friend attended at a Toledo Mud Hens game and would ONLY sign the ED Medication 5x7 cards that the phamaceutical company he was representing had made up - no balls, not bats, no baseball cards.

Ultimately, it all boils down to the athlete... this last tale happened to a friend of mine here in Denver about 14 years ago at the National when it was held here in Denver - Mickey Mantle was the BIG signer - and he took a glove that his dad had given him as a kid (a Mantle Model) fro Mick to sign.

He paid his $75 signing fee to UDA (yes, Upper Deck Authenticated was 'handling' the Mick) and when he got to the table, he was informed by UD that he could NOT have his glove signed as they were considering making replica gloves for Mick to sign. NONE of this was listed/posted/etc - just a decision by the UD rep at the table - so they gave him an 8x10 to get signed for his $75. He was pretty upset, and made it very clear that he was upset and Mantle heard the whole deal. After Mick signed the picture and he was walking away, a security guard approached him and asked him to come talk to him. He thought he was in big trouble for making such a scene.

The guard told him to be at a certain elevator in the Denver Convention Center at a cetain time and not to be late. He went, the doors opened and the guard and Mantle were in the elevator. Mick asked him to come in, apologized for the BS he had to go through from UD and signed his mitt and dropped him off at the next floor. That is a class act!

I always like reading people's interactions with players and I will add some more of my own later...

All the best -

Chris

[xpress34]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

It seems to me that if someone were genuinely concerned about their autograph being forged, they'd sign anything and everything, every chance they got and every time somebody asked - until their signature was essentially worthless as a "collectible" item. Everybody who wanted a Neil Armstrong autograph would have one, and if you didn't have one, you could pick one up for $9.99 on eBay.

As for worrying about what other people do with your autograph...again, if you want to minimize the profit motive, you increase the supply; it doesn't make any sense to refuse to sign anything, thereby vastly increasing the scarcity of your autograph, demand for same, and the motive to sell it for big bucks.

GodWulf -

While that reasoning sounds very plausible, it's actually very flawed when used in the context of a HOF player or very popular player, etc (also know as 'the exceptions to the rule')...

Examples: Mickey Mantle. I grew up in Dallas and Mantle worked the shows there in the late 80's and early 90's constantly. He has a TON of Authentic (whether Authenticated or not is another story) Autos out in the hobby. Hell, in the early 90's, local shops in Dallas bought AUTO baseballs from him by the case (12 count) and they could be found for about $35 or so... his AUTO after his death surged and has never come back down.

Nolan Ryan. Ryan has oft been quoted as saying, "I will sign anything for anybody. Then when I'm gone, the auto won't be worth anything" (paraphrased - not exact word for word quote - you get the idea). While Nolan is taking the idea you expressed and putting it into action, the fact he is a HOFer and very popular has kept his AUTOs a pretty decent value. I mean look how many cards he signs for sets - and his auto is always one of the higher $$$ ones in the set. When he is gone, his autos - just like Mantle's - while undoubtedly skyrocket.

As far as Bench, I've never met the man - but I've heard conflicting stories - and I have been on the end of good and bad autograph stories myself while having friends tell me of completely opposite tales of their meetings with the same people I had experiences with.

And yes, it is generally the decision of the store owner/signing rep/etc to determine what can or cannot be signed at a specific event, although somes places do leave it up to the athlete.

Case in point - Matt Holliday was signing at Listen Up about a week and half ago on behalf of Sharp TV and they had special Topps cards made up for the signing. The 'handlers' said that the cards were what were supposed to be signed, but if Matt agreed to sign other items, they would allow it. Matt signed balls, bats, etc and even inscribed (he had already signed) my 2007 GU WS Hat - and verified it was the ONLY one he wore for all 4 games of the WS. Mike Schmidt on the other hand was at an event my friend attended at a Toledo Mud Hens game and would ONLY sign the ED Medication 5x7 cards that the pharmaceutical company he was representing had made up - no balls, not bats, no baseball cards.

Ultimately, it all boils down to the athlete... this last tale happened to a friend of mine here in Denver about 14 years ago at the National when it was held here in Denver - Mickey Mantle was the BIG signer - and he took a glove that his dad had given him as a kid (a Mantle Model) for Mick to sign.

He paid his $75 signing fee to UDA (yes, Upper Deck Authenticated was 'handling' the Mick) and when he got to the table, he was informed by UD that he could NOT have his glove signed as they were considering making replica gloves for Mick to sign. NONE of this was listed/posted/etc - just a decision by the UD rep at the table - so they gave him an 8x10 to get signed for his $75. He was pretty upset, and made it very clear that he was upset and Mantle heard the whole deal. After Mick signed the picture and he was walking away, a security guard approached him and asked him to come talk to him. He thought he was in big trouble for making such a scene.

The guard told him to be at a certain elevator in the Denver Convention Center at a cetain time and not to be late. He went, the doors opened and the guard and Mantle were in the elevator. Mick asked him to come in, apologized for the BS he had to go through from UD and signed his mitt and dropped him off at the next floor. That is a class act!

I always like reading people's interactions with players and I will add some more of my own later...

All the best -

Chris

[xpress34]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

Sorry!!!

Didn't mean to post twice - I rcvd an error message and resubmitted!!!

[skyking26]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

Bias here. Dave Kingman. Sure, I've known him for years. Was dating my wife back in 94 and I talked her into taking a road trip with me to see Kong in NYC (from MI). It's a llllooooonnnnggg drive. We go to the show the next day and Kingman spots us when he comes in, comes over and speaks with us a minute. After the show the limo driver comes over to tell Dave he is here and they can go when he is ready. Dave tells the driver to never mind, he's going to the airport with me!!! After the driver left, I had to tell Dave I did not have a clue where the JFK airport was. Needless to say I still remember him a little concerned on the drive over, but I'll never forget that.

RK

[geoff]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

All I have to say is Wow.

[David]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

Knowing of Dr. Marshall's personality, he likely thinks the autograph hobby about as profound and worth his time as the beannie baby hobby or Barbie Doll hobby.

[skyking26]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

Here's some more negative stories:

Al Kaline. Almost every encounter thru the years, paid or unpaid have been negative. An icon here in Detroit, Kaline is usually weary of anyone approaching him for anything. I used to hang out by the broadcast booth at Tiger Stadium and hit up many former player-turned broadcaster. I still remember standing there on crutches with my wife and a ball for Kaline to sign after a game. Upon asking, he took his briefcase and threw it across the cement. Funny thing was, he signed and inscribed the ball all the way complaining profusely. His demeanor has been very similar at almost any paid appearance I have seen him at. Very serious, very miserable guy.

Kirk Gibson: Gibby had a place for some time about 50 miles from my place in Lapeer MI. Knew a guy who went to his place on a service call for Detroit Edison. He did not know upon arrival Gibson lived there. Nice looking woman answers the door, and as she tells him that the problem is in the basement and he enters, he is met by a grouchy guy in a towel. The man informs him that he is not to touch a thing other than the electrical panel. Guy goes down in basement, sees some trophy cases and realizes he is now in Kirk Gibson's home. He performs his job, and as he is walking out he takes his hands and smears them all over the cases...

[Nathan]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

Knowing of Dr. Marshall's personality, he likely thinks the autograph hobby about as profound and worth his time as the beannie baby hobby or Barbie Doll hobby.

That's about it.

The man is absolutely brilliant; frankly I found it a lot more interesting to talk with him for about three hours than to ask him for an autograph.

[godwulf]

Re: Terrible Johnny Bench autograph story

Has anyone ever encountered Ryne Sandberg in a non-paid autograph situation?

The reason I ask is that he's coaching or managing (can't recall which at the moment) one of the Arizona Fall League teams next month, and while I'm not a huge Cubs fan or anything, I thought that if the opportunity arose, I might get a ball signed while I'm out there taking my annual two weeks' Baseball-watching vacation.

There are huge numbers of Cubs fans here in the Valley, so I'm sure there's gonna be a whole lot of folks with the same idea.