Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

[trsent]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Mr. Alpert, the Heritage Auctions item description has been revised. Have you received an email from Heritage? I believe you stated you would post their exact response to you. Here is the updated listing:

"2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed. UPDATE: Additional provenance for this lot will be supplied in the form of a signed letter from a member of the US basketball team attesting to the authenticity of the jerseys, and a photograph of him holding his personal jersey from this lot. Heritage regrets that this provenance will not be available until next week, after the close of the auction, but we guarantee that it is forthcoming, and that the winning bidder will not be held liable for the completion of the sale until the promised provenance is supplied.

A trainer at the Las Vegas practice facilities for the US Olympic basketball team is the source for this incredible collection of worn and autographed shirts from the Team Redeem, which properly reclaimed the Gold Medal for the Americans in Beijing. Each reversible mesh shirt exhibits nice wear, and is signed by the superstar who used it. Included are James, Bryant, Anthony, Wade, Kidd, Bosh, Redd, Williams, Paul, Boozer, Prince and Howard. Tremendous break down value here, though it would be a shame to break up the complete set. An exciting opportunity to connect with the greatest talents in the game today. LOA from James Spence Authentication (autographs). Guide Value or Estimate: $1,500 - up."

Mr. Jones, I am sorry, I typed up a response before I left for the night last night and when I was editing my reply it was removed and I did not wish to take the time to retype it.

I have emailed Chris Ivy about his response and still find too many questions about the jerseys and the autographs and the various stories you have told (first you are an observer - Then you are a friend of barred GUU user David Archibald - Then you originated the jerseys?) to believe even a picture will make these legitimate.

The whole USA Basketball team came to private practices and jerseys were made for these private practices that they wore? Why wouldn't they just wear their own jerseys? Something doesn't smell right. There is no press about anyone attending these private practices except for DeWayne Wade - Wouldn't the press know if LeBron and Kobe were in Chicago? Those guys can't walk across the street without the press knowing about it.

You keep up with your stories, and I will keep asking questions and maybe next time David Archibald will contact the auction house when I ask for help with an item that my client wishes to bid on and not a silly bunch of replies from David and yourself when the auction house still has no proof.

In the meantime, with the various phone calls I have received about these jerseys in the last twenty four hours - I found one person who knows you and told me that you used to sell me game used Blackhawks sticks around the old Gate 3 1/2 at the old Chicago Stadium back in the early 1990s. Pretty cool if that is a true story about you being one of the kids who used to get sticks after the games.

In the meantime, amazing ever-changing stories about a suspect group of jerseys will not change my mind and a history of suspect autographs of the same players really has me confused.

I will continue to post more once Chris Ivy of Heritage Auctions replies to my latest questions.

[wjonesIII]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Joel, you keep on saying observer. I never said I was an observer. I know David Archibald personally made phone calls to try to get a letter from the trainer. I did say I knew David because he is the owner of the jerseys and owes a small commission once they are sold. That is the financial interest. You have repeated your point of observer, to knowing, to financial interest multiple times. David did email me about this thread. Nowhere did I ever say I was just an observer. I simply contradicted your points.

You keep on attacking us about the truth, and honesty, and integrity, but you still to this point have not honored your word and posted EXACTLY the reply you were sent by Chris Ivy. Is it that hard for you to pick up the phone and call the gym and ask if the players practiced with D-Wade before the Olympics? You are not a man of your word, or you would have posted the response you received from Heritage as you promised.

[wjonesIII]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

I will post any reply I receive from Heritage Auctions here

Instead, you say you will write more once you here more You did not live up to your word, and now you may since i have called you out on it. You are the person who's honesty and integrity is now in question. I believe after all the attacks on Heritage you made, the forum deserves to read their exact response, just as you promised the forum.

[wjonesIII]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Additionally, I am so sick of the suspect autographs comments. JSA is not God. Ask JSA how many LeBron signatures, or Wade signatures, or Kobe signatures that they have personally seen signed in 2008? Just because JSA s unable to authenticate the autographs on the shoes that came directly from those players trainer DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE FAKE! Are you that ignorant that you think every autograph JSA fails is fake?

You can verify with JSA that in 2007 JSA authenticator Larry S. told David Archibald that an Albert Pujols signature on a Men's Fitness magazine was not signed by Albert Pujols. Then in 2008, after more 2007 exemplars were in their library, that exact item was then authenticated by JSA. This is a fact. You can go on and on about the autographs on the shoes being questionable but out of the five pairs of shoes, one of the players is ready to sign a LOA attesting to the use and the authenticity of the signatures on the shoes. He personally remembers giving the shoes to the trainer. So then you would have to say...."well....but the other four JSA did not authenticate." So you would then be saying that the other four are fake? They all were obtained by the same trainer. JSA makes mistakes. They are very careful and very honest authenticators, and they need exemplars, not just a story. You continue to use the shoes against us, but you are wrong.

[wjonesIII]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Why wouldn't they just wear their own jerseys? Something doesn't smell right. There is no press about anyone attending these private practices except for DeWayne Wade - Wouldn't the press know if LeBron and Kobe were in Chicago? Those guys can't walk across the street without the press knowing about it.

What own jerseys? You mean the practice jerseys they were not issued until they got to Las Vegas?

As far as the press, this is another ignorant comment. If your comment about the press is true, please look up on the internet and tell me what city LeBron and Kobe were in every day in the months of June and July? According to your logic, you will be able to look up each individual day and find out exactly what city Kobe and LeBron were doing that day.

By the way, it's Dwyane Wade.

By the way, I think LeBron just walked across a street.....but you already knew that because the press was there right?

[trsent]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Oops - It happened again - I write a long response only to have the forum reset and all my typing is lost.

Oh well, I am not spending another 30 minutes typing my comments again.

Mr. Jones, do not attack my character for asking questions and not cutting and pasting a reply from Chris Ivy - Grow up and prove your items are genuine. I suggest a letter from Tim Groves may be a great start stating that all 12 members of USA Basketball showed up at him gym for private workouts and they had special jerseys made for them to wear at these private practices.

Otherwise, stop attacking people for asking genuine, honest questions. If you and David Archibald (The same person suspended from this forum for reasons I do not know, but I would guess game used Albert Pujols autographed baseball caps with autographs that were unable to authenticate may be a reason why) had just let Heritage Auctions answer the questions like an auction house should and not raise more doubt about these jerseys this thread would have died.

In the meantime, you both have raised more questions and attacking myself and trusted hobby authenticators has left us all wondering why.

I will chose weather to post in this thread again or not as I am done with childish attacks on my character for not cutting and pasting an email from Chris Ivy of Heritage Auctions. I take pride in asking a question and having respected, honest people answer my questions and not attack my character after promising they were done with this thread - Which I guess you were not with 4 posts in the past 24 hours.

What really sucks is with Chris Ivy's reply, which is no different from what you see on their web site, my client may have bid, but due to questions about why PSA/DNA was a listed authenticator on eBay but not on their web site (now PSA/DNA is not listed on eBay anymore) and the fact that the item has originated from David Archibald who him and his friend have attacked me for asking genuine questions has led us to even more question the items that would have never been asked if Mr. Archibald and Mr. Jones had not gotten involved with the discussion and let the auction house do their job and answer the questions.

[trsent]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Since Chris Ivy has ignored my email from yesterday I will post that I am very confused why the lot I have questioned is authenticated by JSA but not PSA/DNA - Even though the original eBay listing stated that PSA/DNA authenticated the autographs.

What I find odd is other lots in the Heritage Auctions current listing have both PSA/DNA and JSA authentication. So after Chris Ivy tells me that no one from Heritage Auctions but him has communicated with me about the questionable jerseys - As he does not accept David Archibald or William Davis III emailing me or posting about these online as communication from Heritage Auctions - I asked him yesterday straighforward if PSA/DNA was unable to authenticate the autographs on these jerseys as why wouldn't they have both certifications?

Since the same person, David Archibald had USA Olympic autographed shoes that were unable to authenticate, I can only assume that PSA/DNA was unable to authenticte the jerseys also since Chris Ivy ignored the question I posed him yesterday about this topic.

If this is true, shouldn't Chris Ivy notify the high bidder that PSA/DNA was unable to authenticate the autographs? Then again, why else would my question have been ignored by Chris Ivy with the listing ending so soon? Iwould assume since all other lots feature both authentictors that this special lot would also be authenticated by both.

I still await a response.

[trsent]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Since Chris Ivy has ignored my email from yesterday I will post that I am very confused why the lot I have questioned is authenticated by JSA but not PSA/DNA - Even though the original eBay listing stated that PSA/DNA authenticated the autographs.

What I find odd is other lots in the Heritage Auctions current listing have both PSA/DNA and JSA authentication. So after Chris Ivy tells me that no one from Heritage Auctions but him has communicated with me about the questionable jerseys - As he does not accept David Archibald or William Davis III emailing me or posting about these online as communication from Heritage Auctions - I asked him yesterday straighforward if PSA/DNA was unable to authenticate the autographs on these jerseys as why wouldn't they have both certifications?

Since the same person, David Archibald had USA Olympic autographed shoes that were unable to authenticate, I can only assume that PSA/DNA was unable to authenticte the jerseys also since Chris Ivy ignored the question I posed him yesterday about this topic.

If this is true, shouldn't Chris Ivy notify the high bidder that PSA/DNA was unable to authenticate the autographs? Then again, why else would my question have been ignored by Chris Ivy with the listing ending so soon? Iwould assume since all other lots feature both authentictors that this special lot would also be authenticated by both.

I still await a response.

I still await a response from Chris Ivy - The guy with a big head at Heritage Auctions who thinks he is above the rules of common decency - Did PSA/DNA look at these jerseys as they appear to have authenticated everything else in your auction as some sucker paid $2868.00 for these jerseys?

I guess Chris Ivy has a policy that he does not care about integrity or honesty in this industry as he is above having to sell genuine memorabilia or at least answer questions about authentication.

Chris - you had an auction end last night and you ignored my questions about why PSA/DNA did not certify the autographs on these jersey. My client was prepared to bid $4000.00 on these before I found questions about the authenticity of these jerseys and questions about the autographs.

I know, you believe there was a mystery practice session in Chicago that custom made practice jerseys were worn at and all 12 players attended these private practices and no media ever knew about them. I know, practice jerseys show great use and the autographs were accepted by James Spence Authentication (a company not Pre-Certified by eBay) but where is the PSA/DNA authentication?

Just keep ignoring questions and we will see if maybe you can next be visited by a higher government power for not working for your bidders best interest.

You are welcome to post on this forum your replies - It is open to the public.

[wjonesIII]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Joel, the jerseys actually sold for $4250.00 ($5078.75 after buyers premium) so your "client" would have been outbid. There was a live portion of the auction after the internet portion ended.

However, the winning bidder is not liable for the sale as of yet. The agreement is, as clearly stated in the auction listing, is that a photo of a one of the players holding up their jersey and a LOA for all of the jerseys will be provided to HA before the winning bidder is liable for the winning bid.

The player who was asked to provide the LOA was personally responsible for helping his trainer acquire this set of jerseys. He was also at the workouts so he has a first hand knowledge of the authenticity of the lot. If the player ends up not signing the LOA, the auction results are null and void. If the player ends up signing the LOA as I was told he is going to (in addition to an LOA for the shoes you keep on referencing), then that should give the buyer the assurance he or she needs to complete the sale.

If the LOA is signed for the shoes and the jerseys, both of which picture the items and state the facts, can I expect an apology? Before you question the authenticity of the signature on the LOA, you should know that a picture will be taken of the player signing the LOA to prevent you from using that argument as well. These will be my final comments pending the receipt of the LOA and the photos.

[trsent]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Joel, the jerseys actually sold for $4250.00 ($5078.75 after buyers premium) so your "client" would have been outbid. There was a live portion of the auction after the internet portion ended.

However, the winning bidder is not liable for the sale as of yet. The agreement is, as clearly stated in the auction listing, is that a photo of a one of the players holding up their jersey and a LOA for all of the jerseys will be provided to HA before the winning bidder is liable for the winning bid.

The player who was asked to provide the LOA was personally responsible for helping his trainer acquire this set of jerseys. He was also at the workouts so he has a first hand knowledge of the authenticity of the lot. If the player ends up not signing the LOA, the auction results are null and void. If the player ends up signing the LOA as I was told he is going to (in addition to an LOA for the shoes you keep on referencing), then that should give the buyer the assurance he or she needs to complete the sale.

If the LOA is signed for the shoes and the jerseys, both of which picture the items and state the facts, can I expect an apology? Before you question the authenticity of the signature on the LOA, you should know that a picture will be taken of the player signing the LOA to prevent you from using that argument as well. These will be my final comments pending the receipt of the LOA and the photos.

Mr. Jones, Chris Ivy emailed me that David Archibald or William Jones III are not speaking on behalf of Heritage Auctions so your posts are worthless to this discussion.

I am still waiting for Chris Ivy to confirm or deny if PSA/DNA was unable to authenticate these jerseys also had shoes from the same source were found unable to authentic. I am confused why these jerseys do not have PSA/DNA authentication while all other Heritage Auctions lots have such.

As for your letter - I find it worthless - I know people who are friendly with sports players who will do favors for them. Prove there were private practices attended by a Las Vegas facility trainer that the players wore custom made Team USA jerseys. Photos would be nice. A press article would be nice also.

Otherwise - Keep making up stuff and I will await Chris Ivy's reply about the lack of PSA/DNA authentication.

[trsent]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

So, after many emails on Thursday to Chris Ivy, today Monday at 6:45PM Central I have no reply about my concerns with if PSA/DNA looked at the lot I have asked questions about in this thread.

I have sent the following email to Chris Ivy today, let me see if his integrity allows him to reply to this email:

Chris, funny how you stated ignoring my emails.

I can only assume you do not want to be an honest person and admit if PSA/DNA inspected these jerseys, as why would they mistakenly be listed with PSA/DNA authentication only for you to remove it from your eBay listing when I question why the jerseys are not listed with PSA/DNA authentication on your web site? Why would other lots have both authenticators but this lot does not?

Does Heritage Auctions have a policy to sell items with questionable authenticity because making money is more important than honesty and integrity?

Does Heritage Auctions have a policy to have their consignors abuse people who ask honest, genuine questions about memorabilia in their auctions? This seems like a good policy so you don’t have to answer questions and your customers can be abused by consignors and you are not the bad guy…

…or are you?

Joel Alpert

Chris Ivy told me about the letter from a USA Team Player and a photo holding one of these jerseys that the high bidder will receive. I just don't get it. There is no media about 12 players showing up at a private gym in Chicago for workouts (and since the jerseys have nice wear I would assume multiple workouts because I have seen practice jerseys that show light wear from NBA teams) and there were no photos and no media at all about it?

That is just odd and spooky. Besides, for a private practice at a private gym, they custom made Team USA jerseys? That is really weird and odd.

[buc]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Joel,
I'm completely with you on all this except for one thing. JSA is a pre-approved ebay authenticator.

[wjonesIII]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Joel,
I'm completely with you on all this except for one thing. JSA is a pre-approved ebay authenticator.

I keep on promising not to post in this thread, but Joel keeps on not reading or understanding the basic points. So here we go again.

1. Custom USA jerseys: according to the trainer, Kobe's friend "Rev" ordered these jerseys from Nike for the players to wear. Since they were practicing for the USA events, they found it appropriate to wear USA jerseys. That is information Chris Ivy does not have access to.

2. Being abused: you have already falsely accused us on both the MEARS and GUU of threatening you. You later went back on that statement on the MEARS board, but never corrected that statement on this board. So for the record, you were never threatened.

3. Photos: This on is probably the most important because you keep on repeating yourself about wanting photos.

TIM GROVERS GYM HAS A NO CAMERAS POLICY, SO HOW WILL I GET PHOTOS?

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM!

Will you please quit asking for photos of practices that are impossible to obtain due to a no cameras policy. Does this not make sense. Can anyone else on this board explain to Joel that if there is a no camera policy at the gym, and the practiced occurred at the gym, it is dumb to keep asking for photos that would be impossible to produce?

4. Media reports: The USA team came to Chicago after the Olympics to be on the Oprah show and help promote Chicago for the 2016 Olympics. During that week, the players were at Grover's gym every day. Are there media reports about those practices and workouts? According to Joel, there should also be coverage of these workouts all over the net as well. It is not Tim Grover's policy to alert the media when the players come to practice and workout. Find me any media stories about players working out at Grover;s gym, and I guarantee you that the coverage will be a fraction of the amount of actual workouts and practicing that actually occurred.

5. PSA/DNA: I am not sure if PSA/DNA saw the items or not, but I did see they were at one time listed as authenticators on both sites. Again, any experienced autograph collector can tell you that the lack of PSA/DNA authentication does not mean an item is fake. It just means PSA/DNA didn't certify the item. It is an opinion that they give. That being said, if PSA/DNA didn't certify the items but JSA did, where does that leave us? Are you going to say that PSA/DNA is right and JSA is wrong?

6. Player LOA and photo: Joel, you have declared these two items to be worthless. You say that players do people favors. If you are going to call the player a liar, and say they are wrong, that is your choice. I will bet that the majority of people will trust the player over Joel Alpert, especially since you have shown an inability to accept that maybe you are wrong, and even an inability to read for that matter (see: NO CAMERAS ALLOWED!).

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but Joel is clearly just asking the same questions over and over and over and over again, even after he is responded to. You can't ask for something that people can't help you with? If the gym has a no cameras policy, and the media wasn't alerted to the practices, you are either going to have to accept the players word or not.

[trsent]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

Joel,
I'm completely with you on all this except for one thing. JSA is a pre-approved ebay authenticator.

I do not see JSA on this list on eBay:

http://pages.ebay.com/apc/apcbuyer.html

When I previously asked about JSA being Pre-Certified on eBay, I called eBay and I was told they were never listed in this catagory. Please advise if I am mistaken.

[trsent]

Re: Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

I keep on promising not to post in this thread, but Joel keeps on not reading or understanding the basic points. So here we go again.

1. Custom USA jerseys: according to the trainer, Kobe's friend "Rev" ordered these jerseys from Nike for the players to wear. Since they were practicing for the USA events, they found it appropriate to wear USA jerseys. That is information Chris Ivy does not have access to.

2. Being abused: you have already falsely accused us on both the MEARS and GUU of threatening you. You later went back on that statement on the MEARS board, but never corrected that statement on this board. So for the record, you were never threatened.

3. Photos: This on is probably the most important because you keep on repeating yourself about wanting photos.

TIM GROVERS GYM HAS A NO CAMERAS POLICY, SO HOW WILL I GET PHOTOS?

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM!

Will you please quit asking for photos of practices that are impossible to obtain due to a no cameras policy. Does this not make sense. Can anyone else on this board explain to Joel that if there is a no camera policy at the gym, and the practiced occurred at the gym, it is dumb to keep asking for photos that would be impossible to produce?

4. Media reports: The USA team came to Chicago after the Olympics to be on the Oprah show and help promote Chicago for the 2016 Olympics. During that week, the players were at Grover's gym every day. Are there media reports about those practices and workouts? According to Joel, there should also be coverage of these workouts all over the net as well. It is not Tim Grover's policy to alert the media when the players come to practice and workout. Find me any media stories about players working out at Grover;s gym, and I guarantee you that the coverage will be a fraction of the amount of actual workouts and practicing that actually occurred.

5. PSA/DNA: I am not sure if PSA/DNA saw the items or not, but I did see they were at one time listed as authenticators on both sites. Again, any experienced autograph collector can tell you that the lack of PSA/DNA authentication does not mean an item is fake. It just means PSA/DNA didn't certify the item. It is an opinion that they give. That being said, if PSA/DNA didn't certify the items but JSA did, where does that leave us? Are you going to say that PSA/DNA is right and JSA is wrong?

6. Player LOA and photo: Joel, you have declared these two items to be worthless. You say that players do people favors. If you are going to call the player a liar, and say they are wrong, that is your choice. I will bet that the majority of people will trust the player over Joel Alpert, especially since you have shown an inability to accept that maybe you are wrong, and even an inability to read for that matter (see: NO CAMERAS ALLOWED!).

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but Joel is clearly just asking the same questions over and over and over and over again, even after he is responded to. You can't ask for something that people can't help you with? If the gym has a no cameras policy, and the media wasn't alerted to the practices, you are either going to have to accept the players word or not.

According to Chris Ivy from Heritage Auctions you are not authorized by Heritage to discuss these jerseys on their behalf. Based on his reply to me, anyone with any other information does not speak for Heritage Auctions.

Then again, Heritage Auctions in an effort to hide the truth about the autographs on this jersey has ignored my questions about why PSA/DNA was listed as an authenticator for these jerseys on eBay, then removed them when I asked about why their web site didn't list PSA/DNA. I believe in an effort to hide the truth - As with the similar shoes that were found unable to authenticate - The autographs on these jerseys may be suspect.

If not, why would Chris Ivy ignore my emails asking about if PSA/DNA inspected these jerseys? He knows there is something wrong but he likes the commission for his highly competitive company.

You keep coming up with new stories. Maybe if you had let Chris Ivy handle it from the start I would have forgotten about it. Instead you and David Archibald have made the industry very suspicious of these jerseys. Chris Ivy's original reply would have been enough to stop with all the new questions that have come up since David Archibald has a past of game used items with questionable signatures.