Heritage Lot 710 - 2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed

[wjonesIII]

Can anyone help me find any photos from the USA Basketball Teams 2008 Open Practices (they were all open from what I remember) that show the players wears the jerseys to match the ones in the current Heritage Auctions Lot 710 -

I am not sure the practices were open to all. I think they were just open to the media and guests of the team. If you look at the pictures, the gym doesn't appear to be full. In a big city like Vegas, I would assume open practices would have led to a full gym.

[trsent]

I am not sure the practices were open to all. I think they were just open to the media and guests of the team. If you look at the pictures, the gym doesn't appear to be full. In a big city like Vegas, I would assume open practices would have led to a full gym.

Ok, so the media was present at all practices. I gues it doesn't matter if the public was there - The media took photographs galore!

It still doesn't explain how Heritage Auctions can sell these as practice used jerseys when we have already found three flaws with them (star color, neck style and Swoosh patch) and Heritage Auctions has not replied to my email about my genuine concerns.

[wjonesIII]

Ok, so the media was present at all practices. I gues it doesn't matter if the public was there - The media took photographs galore!

It still doesn't explain how Heritage Auctions can sell these as practice used jerseys when we have already found three flaws with them (star color, neck style and Swoosh patch) and Heritage Auctions has not replied to my email about my genuine concerns.

The media was present at all of the Team USA practices? Is that a fact? I am wondering because I watched the road to redemption series after I saw these jerseys and there is at least one scene which shows the players wearing these same jersey numbers, but the jerseys are a different style that the ones you posted.

[trsent]

The media was present at all of the Team USA practices? Is that a fact? I am wondering because I watched the road to redemption series after I saw these jerseys and there is at least one scene which shows the players wearing these same jersey numbers, but the jerseys are a different style that the ones you posted.

If there were cameras, there must have been media, right?

I just found four emails in my junk email folder from a guy claiming to the consignor, but he says he is barred from this forum but Heritage Auctions has ignored my email about these jerseys.

I do not deal with consignors, I deal with the person selling the items, right? The consignor has some excuse that these were worn before the Las Vegas practices, maybe in 2007. They were advertised as 2008 jerseys from Las Vegas so I do not know how they came before then.

I would expect a major auction house such as Heritage Auctions to address my concerns, but they have a chip on their shoulder so I guess they can ignore emails from potential bidders about concerns.

As for the alleged consignor's concern, he should ask Heritage Auctions why they have ignored my email about my concern. Also he should contact Game Used Universe and attempt to have his account restored so he can post here as GUU doesn't suspend accounts without just reasons I have found.

[wjonesIII]

If there were cameras, there must have been media, right?

I just found four emails in my junk email folder from a guy claiming to the consignor, but he says he is barred from this forum but Heritage Auctions has ignored my email about these jerseys.

I do not deal with consignors, I deal with the person selling the items, right? The consignor has some excuse that these were worn before the Las Vegas practices, maybe in 2007. They were advertised as 2008 jerseys from Las Vegas so I do not know how they came before then.

I would expect a major auction house such as Heritage Auctions to address my concerns, but they have a chip on their shoulder so I guess they can ignore emails from potential bidders about concerns.

As for the alleged consignor's concern, he should ask Heritage Auctions why they have ignored my email about my concern. Also he should contact Game Used Universe and attempt to have his account restored so he can post here as GUU doesn't suspend accounts without just reasons I have found.

Here is the item description:

"2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed. A trainer at the Las Vegas practice facilities for the US Olympic basketball team is the source for this incredible collection of worn and autographed shirts from the Team Redeem, which properly reclaimed the Gold Medal for the Americans in Beijing. Each reversible mesh shirt exhibits nice wear, and is signed by the superstar who used it. Included are James, Bryant, Anthony, Wade, Kidd, Bosh, Redd, Williams, Paul, Boozer, Prince and Howard. Tremendous break down value here, though it would be a shame to break up the complete set. An exciting opportunity to connect with the greatest talents in the game today. LOA from James Spence Authentication (autographs). Guide Value or Estimate: $1,500 - up."

I also received an email from the consignor and he made a few valid points.

1. Joel says that the jerseys were advertised by Heritage as 2008 jerseys from Las Vegas. Nowhere in the description does it say that. It says 2008 USA Basketball team practice worn jerseys, sourced from a trainer at the Las Vegas practice facilities. Joel, maybe Heritage wants you to read more carefully. why would they respond to an accusation that they described something wrong, when they didn't actually describe it that way. You read it wrong. These jerseys are from the 2008 USA basketball team players. That is obvious as all 12 players on the team signed the jerseys.

2. I was told that these jerseys were the jerseys worn by the layers before they were given the new style of practice jerseys that you posted images of. I was also told that not every team USA workout and practice was over the last year was open to media. I was told that the jerseys you posted images of were brand new, and were issued to the players for the start of the open media practices in Vegas. All the players had made a three year commitment to the team. This leaves 3 years worth of practices and workouts these could have been worn at. Joel, do you have images from every practice the USA team has had over the last three years, including the 2008 practices prior to open media practices in Vegas?

3. The jerseys are from the personal trainer to players including, but not limited to Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, etc. The consignor has confirmed that the personal trainer was at the USA practice facilities all week with the players. The trainer says he personally witnessed the players wearing these jerseys.

I do now the consignor, and I have been told that he is working on getting a letter signed by the trainer. I think there are a lot of people on this site who pretend t know everything, and do not take into account the details. I posted in a similar thread about 0062 tags vs. 6200 tags. If somebody can prove to me that every Team USA practice over the last few years has been photographed, and that the images have been posted online, that would be one thing. But to accuse an auction house, a consignor, and a player trainer of peddling fake jerseys based on the lack of a photo available online does not seem fair to me.

[wjonesIII]

This information should help any concerned people. I am sure USA basketball would be able to shed some light on the situation.

http://www.usabasketball.com/inside.php?page=contact

There are several ways in which fans, officials, media, coaches, players and family members can contact the USA Basketball staff.

You may write a letter, call or fax the USA Basketball office:
USA Basketball
5465 Mark Dabling Boulevard
Colorado Springs, CO 80918-3842
Telephone: 719-590-4800
Fax: 719-590-4811

All media inquiries should be directed to Craig Miller, Caroline Williams or Jenny Maag in the USA Basketball communications department at 719-590-4800.

All Letter of Clearance inquiries should be sent to: LOC@usabasketball.com. This is for Letters of Clearance ONLY. It is NOT for general inquiries.

For Fan Mail / general inquiries only, send your message via FanMail@usabasketball.com. This e-mail address is not always checked daily and due to the volume of messages received by USA Basketball, it is not always possible to respond in a timely manner. And please, do not send attachments, as any emails containing attachments WILL be deleted.

[trsent]

Here is the item description:

"2008 USA Olympic Basketball Team Practice Worn Jerseys Lot of 12, Signed. A trainer at the Las Vegas practice facilities for the US Olympic basketball team is the source for this incredible collection of worn and autographed shirts from the Team Redeem, which properly reclaimed the Gold Medal for the Americans in Beijing. Each reversible mesh shirt exhibits nice wear, and is signed by the superstar who used it. Included are James, Bryant, Anthony, Wade, Kidd, Bosh, Redd, Williams, Paul, Boozer, Prince and Howard. Tremendous break down value here, though it would be a shame to break up the complete set. An exciting opportunity to connect with the greatest talents in the game today. LOA from James Spence Authentication (autographs). Guide Value or Estimate: $1,500 - up."

I also received an email from the consignor and he made a few valid points.

1. Joel says that the jerseys were advertised by Heritage as 2008 jerseys from Las Vegas. Nowhere in the description does it say that. It says 2008 USA Basketball team practice worn jerseys, sourced from a trainer at the Las Vegas practice facilities. Joel, maybe Heritage wants you to read more carefully. why would they respond to an accusation that they described something wrong, when they didn't actually describe it that way. You read it wrong. These jerseys are from the 2008 USA basketball team players. That is obvious as all 12 players on the team signed the jerseys.

2. I was told that these jerseys were the jerseys worn by the layers before they were given the new style of practice jerseys that you posted images of. I was also told that not every team USA workout and practice was over the last year was open to media. I was told that the jerseys you posted images of were brand new, and were issued to the players for the start of the open media practices in Vegas. All the players had made a three year commitment to the team. This leaves 3 years worth of practices and workouts these could have been worn at. Joel, do you have images from every practice the USA team has had over the last three years, including the 2008 practices prior to open media practices in Vegas?

3. The jerseys are from the personal trainer to players including, but not limited to Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, etc. The consignor has confirmed that the personal trainer was at the USA practice facilities all week with the players. The trainer says he personally witnessed the players wearing these jerseys.

I do now the consignor, and I have been told that he is working on getting a letter signed by the trainer. I think there are a lot of people on this site who pretend t know everything, and do not take into account the details. I posted in a similar thread about 0062 tags vs. 6200 tags. If somebody can prove to me that every Team USA practice over the last few years has been photographed, and that the images have been posted online, that would be one thing. But to accuse an auction house, a consignor, and a player trainer of peddling fake jerseys based on the lack of a photo available online does not seem fair to me.

Wow, you were emailed by the consignor also! Sounds like you are the consignor, David Archibald, as from the first time you posted about this you have been on his side.

Why don't you do me a favor, ask Mr. Archibald about the used shoes he had from this same Dream Team where all the autographs were deemed unable to authenticate. Please explain the history about those shoes and then compare it to these jerseys that you seem very adamant about as if Mr. Archibald, who claims to be the consignor and is also barred from posting on this site, has emailed me emails that appear identical to your posts.

There is no photo evidence to match these jerseys to the 2008 Las Vegas practices as that is what the Heritage Auctions claims the jerseys to come from. If there is some confusion, I am still awaiting Heritage Auctions to respond to my email (except for an automated email that says I will receive a reply).

Finally, since you did not post your email address with your posts, how does Mr. Archibald have your email? It makes me wonder where you came from to post so similarly to emails received from David Archibald, who claims to be the consignor of these jerseys. I would think he would ask Heritage Auctions to address my concerns, as I have never had an alleged consignor email me about concerns, they have always had the auction house deal with me.

Maybe that is why David Archibald is barred from posting on this site so he has to use an account such as "wjonesIII" to post his beliefs. Then again, I have once again blocked emails from Mr. Archibald as I do not believe I should be abused by a alleged consignor while an auction house will not answer genuine questions.

I do not care about any replies on behalf of David Archibald anymore - Unless he wishes to make us more stories about this similar USA Basketball shoes that have signatures that are unable to authenticate and how after these shoes there are now concerns about similar jerseys, maybe from the same source?

In the meantime, USA Basketball jerseys weather worn in 2006, 2007 or 2008 cannot be photo style matched on any web site. If there was such photo matches, I assume "wjonesIII" would post photos on this site as I have spent enough time looking and there are plenty of photos but none match this style of jersey from any practice.

[wjonesIII]

Keep fishing Joel. The jerseys were sold as practice worn by the players trainer. Without pictures, I can't prove they were worn. What Heritage can tell by simply handling the jerseys is the same thing Grey Flannel can tell you. These jerseys show the appearance of jerseys that have been worn.

JSA used their exemplar library and found the signatures to match known exemplars of the players signatures. I don't care what anyone says, JSA has been unable to authenticate genuine autographs of LeBron, Wade, etc. a countless number of times due to the difficulty of authenticating signatures of these modern layers. Anyone who has got LeBron in person to sign, and then had the signatures fail JSA or PSA will tell you the same thing. It doesn't make JSA or PSA bad, it just means they are very careful and that they will fail real signatures because of lack of like exemplars.

The signatures on the LeBron USA shoes do not match perfectly with the signature on the LeBron USA jersey. LeBron's signature on UDA items is not consistent, and that is easy to prove and obvious.

I have already said I know David Archibald, and I do have a financial interest in making sure the facts about these jerseys are available. GUU deprives it's members of certain comments and opinions, so I am making this post. Check the IP addresses. I will not comment on this thread anymore, as it is obvious you think that JSA made a mistake on these jerseys, and you think the trainer is a liar. I do not know why Heritage doesn't replay to you, but I know Joe Orlando just wrote an article for PSA about what he thinks about people like you who attack auction houses via threads before giving them ample time to first respond.

The jerseys Heritage are auctioning are the exact jerseys the trainer said were player worn. When and where they were worn, I don't know for a fact but I have held these jerseys in my own hand and you can verify from the trainer that they went from the trainer to William Jones III to David Archibald. Those are the facts. I have no more to offer to this thread. if anyone here knows any of the Redeem Team players, please ask them to verify the authenticity of these jerseys.

[buc]

Joel,
I'm completely with you on all this except for one thing. JSA is a pre-approved ebay authenticator.

[wjonesIII]

Joel,
I'm completely with you on all this except for one thing. JSA is a pre-approved ebay authenticator.

I keep on promising not to post in this thread, but Joel keeps on not reading or understanding the basic points. So here we go again.

1. Custom USA jerseys: according to the trainer, Kobe's friend "Rev" ordered these jerseys from Nike for the players to wear. Since they were practicing for the USA events, they found it appropriate to wear USA jerseys. That is information Chris Ivy does not have access to.

2. Being abused: you have already falsely accused us on both the MEARS and GUU of threatening you. You later went back on that statement on the MEARS board, but never corrected that statement on this board. So for the record, you were never threatened.

3. Photos: This on is probably the most important because you keep on repeating yourself about wanting photos.

TIM GROVERS GYM HAS A NO CAMERAS POLICY, SO HOW WILL I GET PHOTOS?

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM

THERE IS A NO CAMERAS POLICY AT THE GYM!

Will you please quit asking for photos of practices that are impossible to obtain due to a no cameras policy. Does this not make sense. Can anyone else on this board explain to Joel that if there is a no camera policy at the gym, and the practiced occurred at the gym, it is dumb to keep asking for photos that would be impossible to produce?

4. Media reports: The USA team came to Chicago after the Olympics to be on the Oprah show and help promote Chicago for the 2016 Olympics. During that week, the players were at Grover's gym every day. Are there media reports about those practices and workouts? According to Joel, there should also be coverage of these workouts all over the net as well. It is not Tim Grover's policy to alert the media when the players come to practice and workout. Find me any media stories about players working out at Grover;s gym, and I guarantee you that the coverage will be a fraction of the amount of actual workouts and practicing that actually occurred.

5. PSA/DNA: I am not sure if PSA/DNA saw the items or not, but I did see they were at one time listed as authenticators on both sites. Again, any experienced autograph collector can tell you that the lack of PSA/DNA authentication does not mean an item is fake. It just means PSA/DNA didn't certify the item. It is an opinion that they give. That being said, if PSA/DNA didn't certify the items but JSA did, where does that leave us? Are you going to say that PSA/DNA is right and JSA is wrong?

6. Player LOA and photo: Joel, you have declared these two items to be worthless. You say that players do people favors. If you are going to call the player a liar, and say they are wrong, that is your choice. I will bet that the majority of people will trust the player over Joel Alpert, especially since you have shown an inability to accept that maybe you are wrong, and even an inability to read for that matter (see: NO CAMERAS ALLOWED!).

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but Joel is clearly just asking the same questions over and over and over and over again, even after he is responded to. You can't ask for something that people can't help you with? If the gym has a no cameras policy, and the media wasn't alerted to the practices, you are either going to have to accept the players word or not.