Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Jason:

Any idea who used it? I didn't know that the Dolphins ever used Pac44 helmets...

Not sure, this is what Jim's description was of the helmet.

Player unknown, Riddell Pack 44 size 7, shell-dated 1981. The original facemask is missing and was replaced with a back/receiver mask dating to 1995. Good game-use is exhibited through numerous scuffs and paint marks on the shell, a purple paint mark which may indicate the helmet was actually used in 1982 when the team played Minnesota, in addition to plenty of dirt and sweat staining inside. The jaw pads are intact but the fasteners are in disrepair. An inexpensive item for the budget-minded Dolphins collector.

[helmets]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

My helmet is better then all of your helmets!! lol lol

Is that Tomlinson's mask for 2009?

[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Helmets,
Do you think it's possible a youth helmet could have been used then? Maybe for a kicker or punter who generally have small builds? I have no reason to not believe Jim because he is a very respectable dealer. I sent him an e-mail to ask if it came from a credible source.

[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

I e-mailed Jim and he said he got it from a credible source. I have every reason to believe him.

[aeneas01]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

jason - i hate to rain on your parade but that's not an authentic game used dolphins helmet and it's priced accordingly at $125. if you're looking for a nice display item that captures the feeling of a game used dolphins helmet, i think the helmet you're looking at will do the trick just fine at a pretty decent price. but if you're looking for something that saw the inside of the the dolphins locker room and was used by on a dolphins player on sundays, then you will need to continue your search - and, most likely, you will also need to be prepared to drop more than $125.

the helmet you are looking at is a riddell pac44 helmet which was a riddell's youth model at the time - it was not manufactured or sold for competitive adult play (high school, college, pro, etc.) but, rather, for grades 9th and below. there is just no way around this - and there isn't any plausible reason why an nfl team (let alone a high school or college team) would have purchased these helmets nor is there any plausible reason why riddell would have sold these helmets to adult teams.

unlike the adult models which were made of a more expensive and more impact resistant polycarbonate plastic (kra-lite), the pac44 helmets were made of a less expensive and less impact resistant abs plastic. needless to say riddell and/or any adult program would have been in a rather tough spot had it been discovered in a product liability suit that an adult player was injured due to wearing a pac44, a youth helmet.

i suspect the helmet you are looking at is nothing more than one of the many riddell reproduction display helmets in circulation that were available at retail outlets many years ago - riddell used several different models for these helmets including pro (adult) models, pac44's and even foam-lined shells. the pac44s, like the pro models, were typically fitted with usfl style facemasks while the foam-lined shells were typically fitted with kra-lite facemasks.

the first wave of retail/display pac44 helmets were actually fitted with riveted jaw pad snaps but these snaps were eventually replaced with "pegged" jaw pads that snapped into vacant shell holes - no doubt a cost cutting move. the yackel helmet is fitted with the "pegged" jaw pads and that's what he's referring to when he states "...the fateners are in disrepair" - most likely some of the pegs have broken off from the jaw pads. interestingly i have come across a couple of "kra-lite" pac44 helmets in the past at auction - that is to say kra-lite shells fitted with pac44 padding. but i would guess that this was due to folks putting pac44 padding into an empty an kra-lite shell they came across or riddell liquidating their old kra-lite shell inventory by fitting them with pac44 padding and selling them as display helmets.

anyway take a look at these photos:

a) the top three photos show a retail philadelphia eagles pac44 display helmet that was sold to the public many years ago - more than a few of these type of helmets have magically turned into "authentic gamers" as the years have gone by - go figure.

b) the two photos at the bottom left show a dolphins "shell" reproduction display helmet and the yackel helmet. notice that the "shell" helmet does not have any attachment method for the jaw pads (circled in red) - no snap rivets or peg holes, nothing. and notice the peg holes in the same area of the yackel helmet (again circled in red). now compare this to the game photo on the right which clearly shows a helmet fitted with riveted jaw pad snaps (circled in red), which is typical. if you search getty images you will be able to find a ton of circa 80s closeup nfl and college game photos of players wearing their football helmets - try to find just one shot of a player wearing a helmet similar to the yackel helmet, with jaw pad peg holes. you won't be able to because the players are wearing adult helmets, not youth helmets. btw i'm not saying that yackel is trying to pull anything here - i understand that he's a great guy and a very honest dealer. but he wouldn't be the first honest dealer to think he was selling an authentic gamer that was actually a youth helmet turned into a retail display helmet...




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[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Wow , thanks for taking the time to point this out to me. I'm not a helmet expert because I spend more time on jerseys than anything. This was my first helmet I purchased. I guess I should have done my homework a little bit before buying. Am I upset? No. Great display piece. I'm glad there are experts out there to help me. Now I'm inspired to go out and do some homework on helmets . Thanks guys!

[helmets]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

i understand that he's a great guy and a very honest dealer. but he wouldn't be the first honest dealer to think he was selling an authentic gamer that was actually a youth helmet turned into a retail display helmet...

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Jim knows the value of an early Dolphins authentic helmet, and it certainly is not $125. Lack of identifiers or numbers on the rear, the changed mask, the pegged jawpads, etc. I know Jim's reputation, but I find it hard to believe, given how long he has done this, given how many helmets he has seen and sold over the years, given the prices that he charges for helmets, and finally given the price that he was asking for this one, that he did not know what he had and what he was describing. His business is selling game used jerseys and helmets, and you can not convince me that he didn't have a clue on this one.

[aeneas01]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Jim knows the value of an early Dolphins authentic helmet, and it certainly is not $125. Lack of identifiers or numbers on the rear, the changed mask, the pegged jawpads, etc. I know Jim's reputation, but I find it hard to believe, given how long he has done this, given how many helmets he has seen and sold over the years, given the prices that he charges for helmets, and finally given the price that he was asking for this one, that he did not know what he had and what he was describing. His business is selling game used jerseys and helmets, and you can not convince me that he didn't have a clue on this one.

i was trying to be diplomatic by giving yackel the benefit of the doubt because i know he has treated collectors fairly in the past. but of course your are 100% correct - jim has been around football helmets long enough to know the difference between a pro model and a youth model. the same goes for aj sports collectibles, another reputable dealer, that was pushing pac44 lids as game used pro models on ebay last month.

speaking of yackel, the $4,000 marinio "gamer" he has listed at his sight has some big problems as well - definitely bunk imo...

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[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

i was trying to be diplomatic by giving yackel the benefit of the doubt because i know he has treated collectors fairly in the past. but of course your are 100% correct - jim has been around football helmets long enough to know the difference between a pro model and a youth model. the same goes for aj sports collectibles, another reputable dealer, that was pushing pac44 lids as game used pro models on ebay last month.

speaking of yackel, the $4,000 marinio "gamer" he has listed at his sight has some big problems as well - definitely bunk imo...

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I saw the Marino helmet(not that I can afford it ), and looked up some pics on getty and it seemed it matched up to me, can you tell me some of the problems with it. I'm trying to learn a little more about helmets.

[princip]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Just finished a writeup and pics, I did on this Riddell M155 Seahawks helmet, that I saved from possible bonfire at the hands of Cohibasmoker. Thanks Jim, told you I'd put some life back into this lid.

http://www.greenglare.com/88_Seahawks_M155.html

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Here is my 1994 Jack Del Rio game worn helmet with a photo match.

[aeneas01]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

princip - nice write up and presentation on that m155...

vikingshelmetguy - great looking helmet and nice match. however that's del rio's 1993 helmet, not 1994 helmet. the photo you included in your post is from the vikings' 1993 playoff loss to the giants, which was played in jan of '94. this is nice to know given that was the vikes' final game of the 1993 season and your helmet appears to be in the same condition as it was when it left the field that day.... btw here's another photo from that game:



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[Vikingshelmetguy]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

princip - nice write up and presentation on that m155...

vikingshelmetguy - great looking helmet and nice match. however that's del rio's 1993 helmet, not 1994 helmet. the photo you included in your post is from the vikings' 1993 playoff loss to the giants, which was played in jan of '94. this is nice to know given that was the vikes' final game of the 1993 season and your helmet appears to be in the same condition as it was when it left the field that day....
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Hi Aeneas01, thank you very much for sharing the additional photo of Jack Del Rio wearing the helmet I own. You are indeed correct: The helmet is in fact from the 1993 season (not 1994). For some reason 1994 stuck in my head since, as you correctly point out, the photo I have was from the January 9, 1994 Vikings v. Giants playoff game.... I have seen other photos of Del Rio from that same January 9, 1994 Vikings v. Giants game, and it appears that during the early part of the game, the red mark was not on the left horn of Del Rio's helmet (see attached photo from that same game--no red mark on the left horn), but clearly later on in that same game (when it was darker and the sun went down--see photo in my previous post) there is a red mark on the left horn--so I suspect that the red mark across the left horn occurred during that very Vikings v. Giants playoff game (probably from helmet to helmet contact with the red stripe of a Giants helmet). I found that photo matching photo on Getty Images about a year ago, before I ever learned about GUU and the value and verification enhancing importance of photo matches. When I came upon the photo revealing the red mark across the horn, I was thrilled, and I quickly paid Getty a $200+ license fee to get the opportunity to make myself a copy of that photo for my own personal use to confirm the photo match with my Del Rio helmet. This Del Rio helmet is about as good as it gets as far as modern-era game used helmets go. First, Del Rio is a pretty well-known player. And he wore leather jaw pads, which are rare for modern day players to wear. The photos I have posted don't even begin to show the significant and impressive game wear and battle scars on this helmet. And, the helmet is also autographed by Del Rio on the other side (see attached photo of the right side of the helmet). It is for sure one of the crown jewels and a top favorite of all the game used Vikings helmets in my collection.

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Just finished a writeup and pics, I did on this Riddell M155 Seahawks helmet, that I saved from possible bonfire at the hands of Cohibasmoker. Thanks Jim, told you I'd put some life back into this lid.

http://www.greenglare.com/88_Seahawks_M155.html

Hey everyone, all my Vikings Jack Del Rio helmet talk/photos have pushed M. Princip's recent posting alerting everyone to check out his outstanding write up on the Curt Warner M155 Seahawks helmet featured on his www.greenglare.com website. Check it out... An incredible helmet indeed!

[princip]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Two new lids just acquired:

Steve Myer PAC 3 w/Dungard 210. Interesting fact, Steve Myer is the Seahawks first ever drafted qb(4th RND) in the team's history(1976).



Also, this 1979 Dennis Boyd. Love that Riddell 4-NJOP mask.