NFL jerseys in next Mastro auction

[trsent]

well you can either have it motivate you to do your best or you can quit, go home, and lament that everyone has it out for you and it's all personal.
i guess it all depends on your mettle.

rudy.

Rudy, point blank question:

Do you have issues with Dave Bushing as a collector, dealer and authenticator?

I am not asking if you have issues with his position in the industry, do you have a vendetta against him personally because that is what your attacks, time and time again, begin to look like.

[kingjammy24]

I believe the MEARS staff actually has 3rd party people they work with who are experts in certain areas and they contact them when they wish to check their work. The speculation sounds as if MEARS doesn't ever go to their friends and associates in the industry who can verify such information when they wish to check/balance or just plain need help identifying an item. I know for a fact they do contact associates for check/balances and when they are stumped.

i'm well aware that MEARS has niche experts help them out with nuggets of advice. this is very different than who ends up writing the final LOA and determining the final grade on the item. it's the grade that affects the sales value.

You got your shots in against Dave Bushing - You can sleep better knowing that your posts had something to do with Dave Bushing selling off his shares of MEARS.

it's going to take a lot more than witnessing another one of dave's awkward outbursts to make me sleep well at night.

Rudy, you don't address my concerns, which are why not attack the auction houses that are buying items, in house authenticating these items (or using a suspect 3rd party authenticator), and then selling the items at their own auction house without disclosing that they own the item?

because i had actual proof with the jim brown jersey. show me which other auction houses and authenticators are doing it and i'll be more than happy to discuss them as well. truthfully joel, i mean that. show me and i'll engage them. i need some actual proof though not just a private email saying "i hear so-and-so might possibly have some ownership interest in this item they graded..but i'm not sure so don't quote me".

when doug allen was found to have consigned a kellen winslow helmet that he had a financial interest into his auction without so much as any disclosure, i think i squeezed that one for at least 6 or 7 posts. i publically questioned how it was possible for the head of an auction house to fail to adhere to his own policies and standards. as well, i've constantly wondered aloud on this forum how GFC can be a dealer/
authenticator/auction house without smashing every conflict of interest to the ground. if you and bushing think i haven't discussed the folks at mastro, GFC, AMI and lampson at length then you must've missed the first 1500 of my posts. for some bizarre reason you and bushing think i have something personal against him. i've never even met or spoken to the man so how could it be personal? truth is i rather like his shiny noggin and loud shirts. bushing gets discussed a lot because he's a very big fish who once worked for a firm that touted itself as the new standard of ethical conduct. that's fine to say but it also sets a pretty big expectation. i don't think they'd rather have it any other way though. dave's only other serious competitor is lampson and honestly, i think lampson's been discussed here once or even twice.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

I believe the 2nd look is coming from the collecting community. How many suspect items get brought up on this forum? There is a lot of behind the scenes homework being done.

If you expect MEARS to come to this forum and ask for help, that is not going to happen. Too many people have attacked them when they have really had an open door policy to listening and addressing concerns since I have been involved with MEARS.

it's not about private consultations. it's about who writes the final letter and issues the final grade. that is, it's about who specifically influences the sales price via the authentication.

rudy.

[Nathan]

Rudy, as usual, you have to take rebuttals personally and that is not fair. I give my views on the debate, and you have to thank me for the enlightenment.

I believe the MEARS staff actually has 3rd party people they work with who are experts in certain areas and they contact them when they wish to check their work. The speculation sounds as if MEARS doesn't ever go to their friends and associates in the industry who can verify such information when they wish to check/balance or just plain need help identifying an item. I know for a fact they do contact associates for check/balances and when they are stumped.

Joel,

Maybe it's just me, but if MEARS sent me a bagful of recent Tennessee Vols football jerseys and asked me to look at them, I'd want my name out there. And if it came down to being sent a bagful to look at that was owned by one of the higher-ups, common sense (to me anyway) would dictate that the split between the owner and the authenticator be made absolutely clear. In the interest of full disclosure, this would make sense. I believe it is beyond dispute that Dave purchased a Jim Brown jersey, his company authenticated it, and it is now consigned at auction. I also believe it is beyond dispute that this creates, at best, an enormous perception of impropriety.

Let's consider this. Say someone walks in off the street and offers me a UT Peyton Manning jersey (the ultimate grail) with no documentation. I purchase it with the intention of flipping it for a huge profit; all that I need is the authentication. I'm confident that I would be able to do it, but I would have one of the following two things happen:
1) Have someone else of similar knowledge authenticate it without me being involved, or
2) Have someone closely involved or of similar knowledge authenticate it as a supplement to my own authentication.

Since I don't like being a target for much of anything, I believe that I would go out of my way to emphasize the fact that someone "in the know" who is otherwise uninvolved also believes it to be good, and I certainly wouldn't be drawing up my own authentication letter using my own company. My goal, besides a tidy profit, would be to avoid the slightest appearance of a conflict of interest. If that means tracking down the equipment managers from that time frame and having them look at it and finding Peyton Manning and finding it as well as scouring for a photomatch, that's what it would take.

Joel, this isn't about who else is doing what or what advances MEARS has or hasn't made compared to the largely shady world of authenticating. This is about whether, in this case here, there is a conflict of interest. This is about whether, in this case here, there is the possibility for fraud to have been committed. This is about whether, in this case here, a neutral observer would question the manner in which this is being done.

I commend MEARS for going further than the others are going and certainly for striving toward full disclosure. I don't believe this case helps that cause at all.

[trsent]

Nathan and Rudy, fine. You don't like the way they run their business but they are not going to change it.

They have revolutionized the industry with full disclosure and if you do not like it, please continue to complain about it but at the end of the day they are doing what they find best for their business and their integrity.

No one has to buy their items, but they have set a standard that others ignore because they wish to play by rules that we wouldn't approve but since we don't know the inside facts and MEARS gladly discloses such facts for public record they get people to insult their full disclosure policy.

[beantown]

How about if MEARS has an item of their own they authenticate, its fully disclosed and examined/authenticated by an independent 3rd party...

[Nathan]

Nathan and Rudy, fine. You don't like the way they run their business but they are not going to change it.

They have revolutionized the industry with full disclosure and if you do not like it, please continue to complain about it but at the end of the day they are doing what they find best for their business and their integrity.

No one has to buy their items, but they have set a standard that others ignore because they wish to play by rules that we wouldn't approve but since we don't know the inside facts and MEARS gladly discloses such facts for public record they get people to insult their full disclosure policy.

Joel,

You again totally miss the point. I'm not saying that a phony item is being passed off as authentic by someone looking to turn a quick buck on the back of an unsuspecting collector. I'm saying that, to neutral observers or interested uninvolved observers, it would appear that there is either a conflict of interest or impropriety. Were I in the position of someone who is looking to flip a jersey or other item, I would go out of my way to whatever extent possible to ensure that there is ZERO appearance of a conflict of interest or a possible conflict of interest.

I appreciate MEARS; I have yet to use their services, but I believe they've set a standard that no one else seems to have any interest in touching. But a situation like this doesn't help their perception. If this were Lampson who acquired a jersey, then consigned it after a letter from "100% Authentic" were drawn up for it, wouldn't we be all over that and justifiably so? The various MEARS policies are terrific, but this particular situation doesn't look like something to herald.

[trsent]

Joel,

You again totally miss the point. I'm not saying that a phony item is being passed off as authentic by someone looking to turn a quick buck on the back of an unsuspecting collector. I'm saying that, to neutral observers or interested uninvolved observers, it would appear that there is either a conflict of interest or impropriety. Were I in the position of someone who is looking to flip a jersey or other item, I would go out of my way to whatever extent possible to ensure that there is ZERO appearance of a conflict of interest or a possible conflict of interest.

I appreciate MEARS; I have yet to use their services, but I believe they've set a standard that no one else seems to have any interest in touching. But a situation like this doesn't help their perception. If this were Lampson who acquired a jersey, then consigned it after a letter from "100% Authentic" were drawn up for it, wouldn't we be all over that and justifiably so? The various MEARS policies are terrific, but this particular situation doesn't look like something to herald.

Ok, MEARS fully discloses their items, and that is all there is to it. Rudy can continue to complain about it, but the facts are clear and Troy Kinunen and Dave Grob have made every effort to publicly disclose this information and if people don't like this policy THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BUY IT.

Comparing this to if Lou Lampson consigns an item to AMI and it is authenticated by 100% Authentic, which is his signature, but AMI and Lou Lampson fully discloses they have authenticated the item: WHO CARES?

It is the same concept, and they are telling any potential buyers they owned and authenticated the item.

Then again, you could just deal with Mastro Auctions, who has a panel of secret authenticators who authenticate items and no one knows who owns the items or who authenticates them.

Again - If you do not like this policy, do not buy MEARS For Sale Items.

This debate is getting old. Having Rudy say that he never met Dave Bushing so he is not out to get him, but then he picks on Dave Bushing's taking his attacks personally time and time again shows a pattern.

I will defend any authenticator (and there are not many) who write letters for their own memorabilia and sell it retail or auction.

Oh wait - I just figured it out - Grey Flannel has been doing this since day one and no one whined about it because they do not mention that they own all the items for sale on their web site.

Guys, find better rationale or just do what an educated consumer would do - Buy elsewhere.

MEARS has done what no one else has the guts to do because they want to be honest and show an effort but all they get is people who scream "Conflict of Interest" and you know what it is a conflict of interest that they fully disclose which no one else in the industry has ever done.

Finally, as for "Missing the point" I guess you just want to join the bandwagon that this debate is over a conflict of interest - Which it is and MEARS know this, so they fully disclose such so there is no one who can complain but...

Oh wait, the usual complainers come here.

I already received an email today from a forum reader who says he is tired of the debaters always making it personal and he will no longer post on the forum, and he was a semi-regular contributor.

As usual, the masses think they are going to change the world when the changes for the good are positive and their solutions are not even reasonable.

Like MEARS is going to send their game used items to Lou Lampson for authentication. I hope others are laughing at this also. The solution is simple, MEARS writes LOAs for their own items and the FULLY DISCLOSE THIS CONFLICT OF INTEREST so anal buyers like Rudy do not buy such items since they are losing sleep over such a practice.

[trsent]

Let me make the point totally clear so there is no confusion:

MEARS KNOWS THE CONCEPT IS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST SO THEY FULLY DISCLOSE SUCH IN ADVANCE SO ANYONE WHO IS LOOKING AT AN ITEM MEARS OWNS AND AUTHENTICATED IS TOLD SUCH IN ADVANCE SO THEY CAN MAKE THEIR OWN DETERMINATION.

MEARS KNOWS THIS IS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST - NO GAMES - THEY DISCLOSE SUCH.

[helmets]

Wow, I'm not much of an NFL collector, would like to add more to the few I have, but have everyone seen the lots in the next Mastro auction? Has to be the largest offering of old NFL jerseys I have seen. I hate auctions, but if you like looking at football jerseys you have to check this stuff out:


http://live.mastroauctions.com/index...0Search%20List

I bet ol' Number9 had no idea this thread was going to turn into this...

I sure wish I would have been allowed to grade all of my own papers and tests in college. I'd be making a lot more money...