Hank Aaron HR Bat: Mastro and a tale of slippery provenance

[ndevlin]

I just read the description. It even says its "small by Ruth's standards." Wouldnt that give you a red flag, especially on something this pricey? Its even graded a 4.5.

What exactly were you upset about with this bat?

[b.heagy]

Rick,
Any chance you have copies of the LOO's from MEARS and PSA? Would love to see the paper work for the bat. Which company got it right?

[encinorick]

Just my point Nate. Why would Doug claim the bat to be "Babe Ruth Game Used/Coaches Bat."

Let's make this clear, Nate, Doug's making the representations here, not me. Despite what I flippantly said to Rudy, these descriptions are, in fact, representations which are relied on by non-experts as myself to our detriment. They are legally binding, just like a contract.

I am a consumer and the Mastro descriptions target people like me to induce us to buy their goods and they hold themselves out as experts whom we can rely on. It's not my bad, but Doug's.

[b.heagy]

As a 10+ year customer it is a shame that you had a falling out with Mastro like this one. Was this the first Ruth bat that caught your attention? A situation like this is proof that customers need to do their own research regardless of what an auction house or LOO says. When someone is interested in buying an item from me that they are on the fence about, I ask them how knowledgable they are in that particular field, if they are a beginner or still in the process of learning more I always tell them not to buy the item until they learn more and are more comfortable with the purchase. We all make mistakes, it's how we deal with them that separates the good from the bad.

[dallen]

Rick,

I will post the two LOAs from PSA/DNA and MEARS tomorrow. I am sorry but I can only find your most recent emails and discarded the legal letter after I bought the bat back. If you have them feel free to post them.

Maybe I am missing something here but the only reason I got aggressive is I did not appreciate your language and stated such. I have never been able to stand people I have never met or treated with disrespect throwing "F" bombs into conversations. Can't imagine what you would have called me if I was not willing to buy back the bat.

There was no hesitation in refunding you the money. I believe you got great value buying a Ruth Coaches bat for around $5,000. This is a bat that contrary to your statement was manufactured while he was alive and I believe matched records of bats ordered when he was a coach.

The bottom line is we sell 1,000+ game used items annually and really try to do a good job of authentication and cataloging. A forum like this is a great way for collectors to point out mistakes and I am sure I speak for a lot of auctioneers that we like this type of feedback because we don't ever want to sell something that is not good. A person on this forum sent me a helmet he spent a lot of money on a couple of years ago. I took that very seriously and providing him 20+ pages of data that I believe proved his helmet was in fact authentic. We do not take this lightly. I have no problem with a forum pointing out the handful of mistakes we have made for the past few years but give us some credit for the literally 10s of thousands of good items we have sold.

Yes Rick...you were the victim. You relied on what I agreed was an overreaching statement and bought an A MEARS 4.5 Ruth Coaches bat for $5,000. Then two years later you reviewed the documentation, sent me an aggressive legal letter and within 24 hours I offered to take back the bat for a full refund. No questions asked.

There is nothing more I can think of to do but try harder not to make the same mistake again.

Sincerely,
Doug Allen

[encinorick]

Bill: Thanks for your comments. Once Doug posts the two LOA's read them carefully, then look at the Mastro description which Doug included in his previous post.

How Doug came up with his description based on those LOA's is beyond my comprehension, but I'll let you judge that independently from my opinion.

Afterward, I'll post my September 1, 2008 letter to Doug, which simply states the obvious.

Again, the descriptions in these Auction House catalogues are legally binding contracts. They make representations based on information given to them and consumers, non-professionals, like myself (and perhaps you, too) rely on them to their detriment.

Doug, may not think spending over $5,000 is not alot of money, but I do.

[dallen]

Here are the letters from MEARS and PSA

I confirmed with John Taube that he places the labeling period at 1937 to 1940 vs. MEARS broader dating of 1934 to 1944. We inaccurately latched onto the broader date in our write-up. The light weight most definitely places this bat later in the range....most likely in the 1937 to 1940 pegged by John Taube. This is the reason I had no problem issuing a refund regardless of this being two years after the fact. In discussing the bat we both agree the value to be in the neighborhood of $6 to $8k. By the way I did not say the $5k was not a lot of money. It absolutely is. I just indicated I thought at $5k he got good value.

[Vintagedeputy]

I offer no comment on the dispute, but I give great props to a company that will issue a 5K refund after 2 years.

[encinorick]

Doug, you are such a disappointment. The Malta/Taube PSA/DNA that you sent to me with the bat explicitly stated: "Labeling Period: 1944-47."

In your post below you've deleted the dates and now allege that Taube pegged the bat between "1937-40."

Look at your own post #7, in which you said "Mears placed the bat at 1934-44 and PSA at 1944-47."

I still have a copy of the original PSA/DNA which I post, but, my question to you is why would a professional like yourself purposefully alter a third-party LOA in order to prove a point. Isn't that being dishonest?

[kingjammy24]

doug allen: "MEARS placed the bat at 1934-44 and PSA at 1944 to 47".
"I confirmed with John Taube that he places the labeling period at 1937 to 1940"

doug, why is the LOA you posted missing the labeling year range?



please tell me the president of mastro auctions isn't photoshopping LOAs.

rick, can you post the original LOA?

rudy.