Hank Aaron HR Bat: Mastro and a tale of slippery provenance

[encinorick]

Nice try, Doug. Half-truths become whole truths because, like before, you refuse to look at all the facts, just the few you like. You only published the Mastro description, why not the rest of the information?

You have my original letter dated September 1, 2008 and the original LOA's, why not show all the documents, not just a select few?

I have the letter here, but, I want you to post it (not me) so you can't accuse me of not posting the same letter I sent to you.
What are you afraid of, Doug?

As I said to you in my letter: "...you had no right whatsoever to make the representations you made in your catalogue regarding the bat.... The Mears and PSA/DNA letters are materially inconsistent and inaccurate... The assertions made in your catalogue regarding the bat were intentionally and deliberately misleading in order to induce a non-expert, like myself, to bid on and purchase this item."

Publish the letter and LOA's, Doug, and let the others see how you take this or that fact from this or that LOA and spin a tale of fiction.

Quadruple dare, Doug.

I know you're listening, let's see the letter and the LOA's.

Oh, by the way, Merry Christmas, to you and your family.

[kingjammy24]

"The details surrounding the Hank Aaron bat were never pointed out to me until John Taube sent me an email today"

this isn't simply a case of an item having an issue that's been revealed on this Forum for the first time. it points to something systemic about the way that mastro operates that's pretty concerning. doug, i've heard stories that make sense and i've heard stories that don't make sense and time and time again all i hear from you are the latter. whether it's your statements on the winslow helmet, jordan shirt, or this aaron bat, there are always massive logical loopholes in what you say.

taube knew of this bat and the issues at the time the bat went up for auction at REA. as rob lifson noted, there was a great amount of effort and documentation produced in sussing out the story behind this bat. doug, you're saying that taube never passed along any of the pertinent information to your staff? that taube knew the story behind it but failed to ever disclose any of it? that's frightening. perhaps, some would say that taube didn't know that mastro was going to market the bat as "the one that aaron used for HR #534". however, given the inscription on the bat, taube would have to be pretty dim-witted not to have an inkling as to how the bat would be advertised, especially given that he had previously seen it advertised as aaron's #534 bat. saying that taube never pointed out any of these issues seems to lead some pretty serious implications given that he examined the bat, he was well aware of the issues beforehand, and it was pretty obvious from the inscription how the bat was going to be advertised the second time around.

the second major issue here is why mastro's descriptions are inconsistent, sometimes at odds, with your own authenticators letters. in my very brief conversation with taube, he told me that he only graded that bat as a "hank aaron game used bat", not as a #534 bat. he graded the bat, not the story. the letter that would therefore accompany this bat from taube/PSA DNA would not be one attesting to this bat being the #534 bat but simply one saying that it's a hank aaron game used bat. boy i can only imagine how pissed off a buyer would be to pay a substantial premium for the #534 bat and receive a letter that only states it's a general hank aaron gamer. i don't understand how the process at mastro works in this respect. most auction houses simply transfer the authentication letter to the auction description, word for word. makes sense doesn't it? the letter a buyer recieves should match the auction description that they based their purchase on. as well, who at the auction house is able to write a better description that the person who authenticated the item? apparently this isn't how it works at mastro. taube authenticates a bat and simply says it's a hank aaron gamer and then that description gets the hollywood sci-fi treatment until it's much further beyond the original (in accuracy and profit). if taube never authenticated or stated this bat was the one to hit #534, then who did? is khyber oser taking wild liberties over there? or is it you? who's taking an inch of leeway on items and stretching them to a mile? doug, if the mastro video showing you talking about the jim brown jersey is any indication, i have to think it's you who's playing hollywood screenwriter with the descriptions. didn't you once call it "maximizing the grade"? it's a frightening proposition for your buyers that they can receive a letter with their item that is miles away from the auction description that they read.

the third major issue is the appalling lack of scrutiny at mastro. think about the insanity of what happened on this bat from mastro's perspective. you receive a bat, apparently you're never told about any of the issues and facts surrounding it, and you see a HR inscription and a date. well case closed, that's it then isn't it? no research needed. 74 yr old hank aaron's got a perfect memory about a bat used almost 40 yrs ago! just show old hank a 40 yr old bat and he knows exactly what HR he used it for. no additional investigation needed on mastro's end to determine the inscription's real intent and veracity, right doug? no sir, you've got an elderly athlete's inscription, added decades after the fact, and by golly, those old timers are never wrong or mistaken. doug, are you kidding me with this garbage? the fact that mastro did absolutely no research to verify any of this is appalling beyond belief. is this seriously how mastro operates? REA did the the research, why didn't you? if i took a mcgwire homerun ball and wrote "HR #63" on it, i guess you guys would just plunk that thing right into a $3 million auction right?

i'm not even going to bother with the whole "secret authentication team" nonsense. suffice it to say that it's a very odd thing that mastro trumpets the use of john taube and has online bios for everyone from bill mastro to jimmy spence to the guy who runs the shipping department and your resident "beatles expert", but when it comes to your jersey authenticators, for some reason that's a big secret. i'm not even going to ask if you guys are using tony cocchi and lou lampson. i'm not even going to wonder if the reason the jersey authenticators are a secret while john taube is not is because you're proud to be associated with taube whereas you're not proud of who you're using for your jerseys. if you want to keep folks a secret, then why not keep all of them a secret? why are only a select few of them kept a secret? nothing strange about any of that.

p.s. i'll send this post via email as well.

rudy.

[trsent]

p.s. i'll send this post via email as well.

rudy.

Rudy, post scripts generally come after your name, not prior to signing your letter.

[earlywynnfan]

Rudy, post scripts generally come after your name, not prior to signing your letter.

Holy Cow, Joel, how does this help the situation????????

What is the intent of this post, and please don't tell me you're trying to inject humor, since you and Rudy just had some kind of battle last week.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[trsent]

Holy Cow, Joel, how does this help the situation????????

What is the intent of this post, and please don't tell me you're trying to inject humor, since you and Rudy just had some kind of battle last week.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Ken, it kept me from harassing Rudy for once again having someone come on here and addressing their questions and Rudy continues to harass and bring up old history instead of thanking them for addressing their concerns and possibly working with them to address the concerns. Instead, Rudy wants them to go to hell for making the error in the first place. It looks to me like Rudy is making comments that would lead us to believe they intentionally committed fraud.

Doug Allen posted on this site, discussed issues and instead of trying to work with him, Rudy continued to harass. Rudy never is pleased with anyone's efforts to work with his concerns, he always wants them to fry for their past errors and then make references to make it appear the auction house was intentionally committing fraud.

No wonder time and time again, an auction house works with us then leaves the discussion forum due to excessive harassment and abuse.

I didn't want to post my true feelings that Rudy should work with the auction house willing to post on this site instead of bombarding them with harassing posts not giving them a chance to work with us.

Since you brought it up.

Maybe you should email the owners of this forum and ask for a job as moderator. I do not know if they are hiring, but you must desire that job.

Finally, I have people battle me on this forum. I never feel I battle with Rudy as he does often understand the stance of debate even though he often has to go off topic to prove his point, which leads me to my usual concerns about why the topics cannot be discussed without personal attacks?

[kingjammy24]

..and joel drags yet another thread down the terlit with irrelevant nonsense.

"Rudy continues to harass and bring up old history"

my post focused solely on the hank aaron bat currently up for auction.

"..instead of trying to work with him, Rudy continued to harass"

my post asked 3 pertinent questions:

1) did john taube really not disclose what he knew about the bat?
2) why do mastro's descriptions differ from their authenticators' letters?
3) why was there no research done on a bat signed by a man 40 yrs after
he used it?

i wasn't aware these questions constituted harassment.

"No wonder time and time again, an auction house works with us then leaves the discussion forum due to excessive harassment and abuse."

doug allen: "My reason for not wanting to post is simply a time constraint issue as with three auctions closing in the next three weeks I could never do it justice." Read it Joel. Then read it again. Then put your glasses on and read it a third time. If you still can't comprehend it, I can't help you anymore. i'm sure doug would appreciate you not putting words in his mouth.

rudy.

[encinorick]

Early: I only mentioned my situation because this practice continues and people like myself who aren't professionals end up with junk because of sweet talking guys like Doug. Witness the Hank Aaron bat.

Instead of simply saying "my bad" here's your money back, Doug said I was "outrageous," then pointed his finger at me and said "begone" just because I told him the truth.

But, the emotion comes from another source. I had the bat in my home office, it was a great source of pride for me to tell friends and family that I owned a Ruth bat. My son, who is 8 years old, loves baseball and he loved telling his friends about the bat. Last spring, his Encino Little League won the division and I showed the bat to all the guys and they thought it was cool. Then, in the fall, I had to tell them all it wasn't a Ruth bat, but just a piece of wood.

I still have the custom-built holder in my office, but it's empty. I keep it that way to remind myself and my experience and how careful you have to be with these auction house guys.

The truth (the whole truth and nothing but the truth) will set you free, Doug. Release the documents.

[trsent]

whether it's your statements on the winslow helmet, jordan shirt, or this aaron bat, there are always massive logical loopholes in what you say.

Rudy, I didn't put words in anyone's mouth.

The quote above is what I meant by you bringing up the past. You do not address issues at hand, you address items from the past that have no relevance on the topic of the Hank Aaron bat. You only posted about the Aaron bat? Then why bring up the Winslow helmet and Jordan shirt?

You can accuse me of ruining the forum. I just know that Doug Allen posted on this forum and you decided to attack him and I will post that if Ken doesn't appreciate my "post script" reply, which was me trying to avoid what irritated me about your reply to Doug Allen.

You only read what you believe is in your best interest to attack and abuse instead of working with those we so eagerly wish to add to the discussions here.

I know, you and your fans wish I wouldn't post so y'all can attack and attack and not have anyone to balance comments and concerns.

[kingjammy24]

an addendum has been posted to the auction:

"Please Note:
Additional research has suggested that we emphasize pertinent documentation relating to Aaron's later-added inscription on the bat:
This bat was originally sold as part of the famous Thomas C. Eakin collection in January 2002. A letter signed by Mr. Eakin accompanying the bat at that sale indicated that this very item was given to Mr. Eakin following the completion of a game at Crosley Field in 1969, a contest in which Mr. Eakin recalled that Hank Aaron hit a home run. Acting on this information, Bob Allen, Aaron's press agent at the time, sought verification from the Home Run King himself that this lumber was in fact wielded by Aaron at Crosley Field when he struck home run number 534. Upon establishing that Aaron hit three home runs at Crosley Field in 1969 (no. 534 in 7/15/1969, no. 548 in 9/5/1969, and no. 549 in 9/7/1969), Mr. Allen met with Aaron at the Pfister Hotel in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in November 2003. In a signed and notarized letter dated November 4, 2003, Mr. Allen attests, "This letter is to serve as authentication for Hank Aaron's career #534 Homerun bat. Hank Aaron verified and signed this bat on November 1st, 2003 at the Pfister Hotel in Milwaukee, WI. Mr. Hank Aaron personally signed and inscribed the bat, 'Hank Aaron, HR 534, 7/15/99.' I personally witnessed the signing. - Sincerely, (signed) Bob Allen." Consequently, while Aaron's inscription was added at a much later date, he himself confirmed that of the three possible dates on which this bat might have been employed, it was in fact used on July 15, 1969 when he struck home run number 534. Mastro Auctions acknowledges that questions can present themselves with respect to a bat that has not been in the possession of Hank Aaron since 1969; accordingly, we note the foregoing circumstances as pertinent information that relates to the bat's provenance."

so aaron gives away a bat in 1969. 34 yrs later, he's met a hotel by his press agent and asked in which of 3 possible games, in 1969, did he use this bat to hit #534. aaron then confirms that "it was in fact used on July 15, 1969". wow.

anyway, all of it seems to fly in the face of what occurred when REA did their research. as rob lifson told me: "..I even tracked down the original owner (the one who received the bat) to clarify that he did not get it right from Aaron..When I asked Aaron's office, I was told that he did not know...they said very clearly that Hank Aaron was not saying that this was the bat he hit home run #534 with, he was not saying it was not, he was saying that he did not and does not know."

rudy.

[encinorick]

Rudy: Doug would simply say he was "overreaching" with the facts and leave it at that. Be advised Rudy, you too may be put on "double secret probation" if you don't stop, so be careful.

And stop reading those Mastro descriptions! They're there to entertain and bemuse and tell a good story, nothing more, nothing less.