Hank Aaron HR Bat: Mastro and a tale of slippery provenance

[kingjammy24]

currently mastro is auctioning off what they say is the bat that hank aaron used to hit HR #534:

http://live.mastroauctions.com/index...s&CurrentRow=1

the description reads: "Here offered is the Adirondack lumber with which Aaron launched career home run number 534 in 1969, a round-tripper that placed the Braves great just three short of longball-affluent contemporary Mickey Mantle, and the very one that tied "Hammerin' Hank" with Hall of Famer Jimmie Foxx for fourth on the all-time list...But for all those significant homers, the hobby has encountered only a limited number of documented Aaron home run bats. The Cooperstown legend himself memorialized his important achievement in tying Jimmie Foxx when he penned "Hank Aaron - HR 534 - 7/15/1969" on this very heirloom. Indeed, few weapons are of greater significance to his assault on Ruth's record than the bat he used to tie Foxx at the magic number of 534—this is the bat that caught "The Beast!"

this bat previously sold in an REA auction here:
http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2004/616.html

note the REA addendum which reads:
"Upon careful consideration of the supporting documentation accompanying this bat, Robert Edward Auctions does not share the opinion that the documentation supports with 100% certainty the conclusion that this bat is definitely the bat Hank Aaron used to hit homerun number 534."

it seems a little odd that aaron was somehow able to attribute this particular bat to home #534 30+ years after the fact and also that Mastro and REA share such dissimilar opinions about the bat. curious, i asked rob lifson, president of REA, if he could enlighten me as to the bat's history. rob's reply:

"My understanding is there was reason to think this bat was attributed via a story to HR 534. It was sold many years ago with a story that it was an Aaron home run bat that was given to a collector by the equipment guy (not by Aaron personally) after a game in which he hit a home run in a specific year (1969). Based on that and that alone, after research (looking up what dates Aaron hit home runs) it was determined that if the story was accurate, and the dates were accurate, it had to be home run #534. I accept that. But it all depended on the accuracy of the recollections. I reviewed the work at the time and understood the rationale, but also understood the leaps of faith involved, including that the bat may not have even been the Aaron home run bat but just a bat given at a game at which he hit #534. I even tracked down the original owner (the one who received the bat) to clarify that he did not get it right from Aaron (this was when REA auctioned it in 2004). I believed the sincerity of the story but a story is a story. It is my understanding that Aaron was paid to sign the bat. Presumably he was shown the research regarding the dating of the bat but I don't know. It would seem reasonable to assume that he was, and that he was happy to sign in this manner because of the research, which did have some merit, but Aaron did not sign that this was the bat he hit #534 with, he just referenced #534. My thought process was "how the heck would Aaron be able to identify this bat as the bat he hit #534 with 30+ years later (UNLESS he specifically remembered giving the bat as a gift via the equipment manager - I don't remember the recipient's name but he was well known and maybe that was the case - the recipient had his own museum in Ohio and Lelands bought his collection years ago - the collector got most of his items direct from players is my understanding). Anyway, I contacted Aaron for clarification - I wanted to know "was he saying this was his #534 home run bat?" and if so, "how is he identifying it?" I would think he would not be able to identify a specific bat years later. I know I couldn't. It just didn't make any sense to me. After harassing Aaron's office with letters and calls, Aaron's office finally got back to me with a definite answer: Aaron was NOT saying that this bat was or was not the bat with which he hit home run #534. Period. So REA provided all this correspondence and reasearch, tracing it all the way back to the original owner, to all bidders, and we put up an addendum. Since much of this happened during the first days of the auction, we actually had to take down a few bids per bidder's requests. Once interested bidders appreciated the background of the bat (we made all of the documents available to all interested bidders, and those that actually bid did get copies - somewhere around here we probably kept a set - I wish I could put my hands on it - it was very clear and informative), it was worth a modest premium to bidders but nowhere near what an iron-clad #534 Aaron bat would have been worth...It is fascinating to me that the current description does not reference any of the documents that accompanied the bat when it was sold, including documents that clearly stated that Aaron was not saying that he had any way to know if this was the home run #534 bat. I guess they got lost. I'll always remember this situation well as when I shared my thoughts with Troy Kinunen, he was sort of stunned, and thanked me bringing this to his attention, calling it a very valuable learning experience with reference to authentication that would be helpful in the future. I think the MEARS (then SCD Authentic) documentation had to be modified, and Troy was not only gracious, he was grateful. I could see that there would be times when we might be able to help as we reviewed items - I remember telling them that there is a big difference between authenticating an item and authenticating a story... The facts are the facts and they were shared with all bidders on the lot, and the original documents were sent to the winner."

in a way it's unbelievable that mastro is selling the bat without any of this previous information, which calls it direct question whether it is the bat used to hit #534 and greatly impacts its value and mastro's profits on it. yet, it's also not unbelievable given that it's mastro. remember this story the next time doug allen utters the tripe that brown's "game jersey" inscription means that jim brown himself is saying he wore the jersey. perhaps like aaron and this bat, brown was only referencing that this jersey resembles one of his "game jerseys". of course, that's not nearly as profitable an explanation.

rudy.

[encinorick]

I've had a similiar experience in the past regarding Mastro. A couple of years ago I bought a Babe Ruth "game used bat" from Mastro.

The description stated explicitly that it was "game used and or a coach's bat used by the Great Bambino during the latter part of his career." The description also suggested that the bat was might "light" for the Bambno and it's length was also much shorter than any other Ruth bat, but that those oddities could be explained for this reason or that. Anyway, according to Doug and Mastro, "this bat was used, in the hands of, the Great Bambino."

And, according to the the description, it came with 2 (not 1, but 2) LOA's from Mears and PSA/DNA.

So I bought it. For good money, I might add.

And the Mear's LOA gave it a 4.5 and the PSA/DNA (Taube) said it was a bat from the late 1940's, sometime after Ruth died, I think. Anyway, both LOA's were inherently inconsistent and there was nothing in either LOA that even hinted that the bat was a "Ruth game used or a coach's bat."

In other words, the description by Mastro was complete fiction.

I asked for and got my money back from Doug, which was a good thing, but he wrote some pretty nasty things to me in his email and cut me off from bidding on future Mastro auctions, which is also a good thing given my experience with them.

As a lawyer, I'd advise y'all to be careful about descriptions from Mastro. Chicago is a funny place, where right might be right, but isn't necessarily right, and wrong, well, wrong is also is in how you define the term.

[trsent]

I've had a similiar experience in the past regarding Mastro. A couple of years ago I bought a Babe Ruth "game used bat" from Mastro.

The description stated explicitly that it was "game used and or a coach's bat used by the Great Bambino during the latter part of his career." The description also suggested that the bat was might "light" for the Bambno and it's length was also much shorter than any other Ruth bat, but that those oddities could be explained for this reason or that. Anyway, according to Doug and Mastro, "this bat was used, in the hands of, the Great Bambino."

And, according to the the description, it came with 2 (not 1, but 2) LOA's from Mears and PSA/DNA.

So I bought it. For good money, I might add.

And the Mear's LOA gave it a 4.5 and the PSA/DNA (Taube) said it was a bat from the late 1940's, sometime after Ruth died, I think. Anyway, both LOA's were inherently inconsistent and there was nothing in either LOA that even hinted that the bat was a "Ruth game used or a coach's bat."

In other words, the description by Mastro was complete fiction.

I asked for and got my money back from Doug, which was a good thing, but he wrote some pretty nasty things to me in his email and cut me off from bidding on future Mastro auctions, which is also a good thing given my experience with them.

As a lawyer, I'd advise y'all to be careful about descriptions from Mastro. Chicago is a funny place, where right might be right, but isn't necessarily right, and wrong, well, wrong is also is in how you define the term.

Thanks for sharing your experience - That is quite a story you tell. I would think that auction houses would not blame the customer for not asking to see the LOAs in advance, which is what I am sure he told you, but stand behind their merchandise if the description is deceptive as it appears is was in your case.

[dallen]

These inquiries were pointed out to me indirectly so I thought I would post a response.

First and foremost if anyone on this forum ever has a question don't hesitate to contact me. As you can imagine with over 250 game used items in this auction we are quite busy but I would like to be responsive to each an every question. It is easiest to reach me via email at dallen@mastroauctions.com.

Here are my responses...

#1 If anyone one the GU forum wants to bid I will waive the $75 registration fee just drop "GU Forum See Doug" in the comment field and you will not be charged.

#2 The details surrounding the Hank Aaron bat were never pointed out to me until John Taube sent me an email today. This will be addressed tomorrow and an appropriate modification will be made to the lot.

#3 It is true that last year we sold a Babe Ruth Coaches bat for around $5,000 which by the way was a pretty fair price. The LOAs properly disclosed it as a Late era Ruth Coaches bat. When the buyer pointed out the description to me through his first contact which was a formal legal letter I reviewed the description and agreed it was overreaching and immediately offered a refund. The rest played out in a series of emails I attached below. You be the judge. Please note I exchanged the "***" in his most recent response as I did not think it was appropriate to post this in its entirety.

Sincerely,
Doug Allen

-----Original Message-----
From: rnealww@aol.com <rnealww@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:17 PM
To: dallen@mastroauctions.com <dallen@mastroauctions.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks, Doug

Yeah sure, I guess you guys in Chicago have different set of standards. Oh,
by the way, f*** you, too. My best, Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: dallen@mastroauctions.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:18 PM
To: rnealww@aol.com
Subject: Re: Thanks, Doug

Rich,

After your outrageous response last month I in fact turned your account off. After your apology I fully intended to turn it back on for bidding so you and your son can find some other great Brooklyn and Ruth pieces. I totally forgot and am sorry. I would have expected you to send an email but now you are going off and being aggressive again.

I guess it would be best for all involved for you to park your money somewhere else.

BTW tell your friends how you purchased a bat years ago, expressed concern and immediately got a refund. I personally believe we treated you with the utmost in professionalism.

Regards,
Doug
From: rnealww@aol.com [mailto:rnealww@aol.com]
Sent: Wed 10/22/2008 8:36 PM
To: Doug Allen
Subject: Re: Thanks, Doug


Doug: A friend mentioned he received his Mastro catalogue and was bidding on some items I might be interested in acquiring. Funny thing, I didn't receive one and when I went to the website, I was denied access. It seems my account has been canceled. I guess I'm on "double secret probation."

Class act, Doug. Real class. And to think all I wanted to do is spend some money at Mastronet.

No problem. I'll find other places to park my money. Good luck with the recession, and I'll be sure to tell all my collector friends about my pleasant experience with Mastronet.

Have a nice day, Richard Weissfeld

[trsent]

These inquiries were pointed out to me indirectly so I thought I would post a response.

First and foremost if anyone on this forum ever has a question don't hesitate to contact me. As you can imagine with over 250 game used items in this auction we are quite busy but I would like to be responsive to each an every question. It is easiest to reach me via email at dallen@mastroauctions.com.

Here are my responses...

#1 If anyone one the GU forum wants to bid I will waive the $75 registration fee just drop "GU Forum See Doug" in the comment field and you will not be charged.

#2 The details surrounding the Hank Aaron bat were never pointed out to me until John Taube sent me an email today. This will be addressed tomorrow and an appropriate modification will be made to the lot.

#3 It is true that last year we sold a Babe Ruth Coaches bat for around $5,000 which by the way was a pretty fair price. The LOAs properly disclosed it as a Late era Ruth Coaches bat. When the buyer pointed out the description to me through his first contact which was a formal legal letter I reviewed the description and agreed it was overreaching and immediately offered a refund. The rest played out in a series of emails I attached below. You be the judge. Please note I exchanged the "***" in his most recent response as I did not think it was appropriate to post this in its entirety.

Sincerely,
Doug Allen

Doug, thanks for posting your side of the story, your discount terms and that you will look into Rudy's concerns.

Welcome to Game Used Universe - Hopefully you will continue to contribute to this great forum!

[encinorick]

Doug: It is charming, as always, to talk with you. I find it interesting that you continue to play the victim here. Funny how a company can sell a purported Babe Ruth bat that isn't and feel victimized.

Justifying your actions by posting "selective" emails doesn't explain the whole story now does it, Doug?

Why not post my original letter to you and the Mastro description of the item (which I included with the letter) and the 2 LOA's (the Mears and PSA/DNA) which you have in your possession?

I dare ya.

Why not tell the whole story Doug?

I double dare ya.

Afterward, collectors should be given an opportunity to ask you how in the world you'd even consider selling this item as described.

How about it Doug?

I triple dare ya.

[dallen]

Following is the write-up from our October of 2006 auction....the buyer was provided both letters from MEARS (grade 4.5) and PSA (Auth Matches factory records) along with the bat. MEARS placed the bat at 1934-44 and PSA at 1944 to 47. Two years after the fact when it presented to me I agreed that the comment highlighted in red below was inappropriate as I would consider this as a Coaches Bat so I quickly offered a full refund of $4,692 plus the BP.

This will be my last post....I couldn't resist the "triple dare" but if anyone has any additional questions feel free to email me at dallen@mastroauctions.com By the way any time I respond to an email feel free to post it on this Board. My reason for not wanting to post is simply a time constraint issue as with three auctions closing in the next three weeks I could never do it justice. I tend to be able to keep up on the email.

Thanks,
Doug

Babe Ruth 1934-1944 H&B Game Used Player/Coaches Bat

With the diamond as his sizable stage, Babe Ruth lured admirers by the millions. Holding a virtual monopoly on the home run, Ruth had it all: adoring fans, endorsement power and perennial team and personal laurels. But as his physical skills waned, Ruth was unable to attain what he longed for perhaps most of all - a managerial position. Flat-out denied consideration by the New York Yankees, Ruth was subsequently dealt to the Boston Braves—and fed a series of misleading (and empty) promises by that team's brass. Presented here is a Hillerich & Bradsby signature model bat wielded (albeit with decidedly less flare) by The Bambino during the latter stages of his playing and coaching career. Measuring 34" and carrying a weight of 32-1/2-oz., this white ash model hails from the 1934-1944 labeling period and is small by Ruth standards. But factory records indicate that Ruth did, indeed, order bats as light as 35 ounces—in particular, for the 1935 U.S. Tour of Japan. While the offered lumber is 2-1/2 ounces shy of Ruth's lightest models, it is entirely possible (and probable) that the bat could have lost two to three ounces during the decades that have elapsed since its turning. Save for one of the worn characters below Ruth's facsimile signature, the barrel stampings and centerbrand remain prominent. The hitting treasure exhibits evidence of heavy use, with ball and surface marks throughout, as well as grain swelling on the hitting surface. Additionally, a 10" handle crack has been repaired by six vintage bat boy nails. Over time, the surface has taken on a rich brown hue—a feature that is evidenced by a 9-1/2" section (near the crack) that was covered by tape and, consequently, has remained decidedly lighter. Also, there are areas of a dark, thick dried substance about the barrel. There are no lengths listed in factory records from 1934 through 1941, only weights. Ruth's final season as a player was 1935. He coached for Brooklyn in 1938. Graded A-4.5 by MEARS. LOAs from Dave Bushing & Troy Kinunen/MEARS, John Taube/PSA DNA.

[encinorick]

Nice try, Doug. Half-truths become whole truths because, like before, you refuse to look at all the facts, just the few you like. You only published the Mastro description, why not the rest of the information?

You have my original letter dated September 1, 2008 and the original LOA's, why not show all the documents, not just a select few?

I have the letter here, but, I want you to post it (not me) so you can't accuse me of not posting the same letter I sent to you.
What are you afraid of, Doug?

As I said to you in my letter: "...you had no right whatsoever to make the representations you made in your catalogue regarding the bat.... The Mears and PSA/DNA letters are materially inconsistent and inaccurate... The assertions made in your catalogue regarding the bat were intentionally and deliberately misleading in order to induce a non-expert, like myself, to bid on and purchase this item."

Publish the letter and LOA's, Doug, and let the others see how you take this or that fact from this or that LOA and spin a tale of fiction.

Quadruple dare, Doug.

I know you're listening, let's see the letter and the LOA's.

Oh, by the way, Merry Christmas, to you and your family.

[kingjammy24]

"The details surrounding the Hank Aaron bat were never pointed out to me until John Taube sent me an email today"

this isn't simply a case of an item having an issue that's been revealed on this Forum for the first time. it points to something systemic about the way that mastro operates that's pretty concerning. doug, i've heard stories that make sense and i've heard stories that don't make sense and time and time again all i hear from you are the latter. whether it's your statements on the winslow helmet, jordan shirt, or this aaron bat, there are always massive logical loopholes in what you say.

taube knew of this bat and the issues at the time the bat went up for auction at REA. as rob lifson noted, there was a great amount of effort and documentation produced in sussing out the story behind this bat. doug, you're saying that taube never passed along any of the pertinent information to your staff? that taube knew the story behind it but failed to ever disclose any of it? that's frightening. perhaps, some would say that taube didn't know that mastro was going to market the bat as "the one that aaron used for HR #534". however, given the inscription on the bat, taube would have to be pretty dim-witted not to have an inkling as to how the bat would be advertised, especially given that he had previously seen it advertised as aaron's #534 bat. saying that taube never pointed out any of these issues seems to lead some pretty serious implications given that he examined the bat, he was well aware of the issues beforehand, and it was pretty obvious from the inscription how the bat was going to be advertised the second time around.

the second major issue here is why mastro's descriptions are inconsistent, sometimes at odds, with your own authenticators letters. in my very brief conversation with taube, he told me that he only graded that bat as a "hank aaron game used bat", not as a #534 bat. he graded the bat, not the story. the letter that would therefore accompany this bat from taube/PSA DNA would not be one attesting to this bat being the #534 bat but simply one saying that it's a hank aaron game used bat. boy i can only imagine how pissed off a buyer would be to pay a substantial premium for the #534 bat and receive a letter that only states it's a general hank aaron gamer. i don't understand how the process at mastro works in this respect. most auction houses simply transfer the authentication letter to the auction description, word for word. makes sense doesn't it? the letter a buyer recieves should match the auction description that they based their purchase on. as well, who at the auction house is able to write a better description that the person who authenticated the item? apparently this isn't how it works at mastro. taube authenticates a bat and simply says it's a hank aaron gamer and then that description gets the hollywood sci-fi treatment until it's much further beyond the original (in accuracy and profit). if taube never authenticated or stated this bat was the one to hit #534, then who did? is khyber oser taking wild liberties over there? or is it you? who's taking an inch of leeway on items and stretching them to a mile? doug, if the mastro video showing you talking about the jim brown jersey is any indication, i have to think it's you who's playing hollywood screenwriter with the descriptions. didn't you once call it "maximizing the grade"? it's a frightening proposition for your buyers that they can receive a letter with their item that is miles away from the auction description that they read.

the third major issue is the appalling lack of scrutiny at mastro. think about the insanity of what happened on this bat from mastro's perspective. you receive a bat, apparently you're never told about any of the issues and facts surrounding it, and you see a HR inscription and a date. well case closed, that's it then isn't it? no research needed. 74 yr old hank aaron's got a perfect memory about a bat used almost 40 yrs ago! just show old hank a 40 yr old bat and he knows exactly what HR he used it for. no additional investigation needed on mastro's end to determine the inscription's real intent and veracity, right doug? no sir, you've got an elderly athlete's inscription, added decades after the fact, and by golly, those old timers are never wrong or mistaken. doug, are you kidding me with this garbage? the fact that mastro did absolutely no research to verify any of this is appalling beyond belief. is this seriously how mastro operates? REA did the the research, why didn't you? if i took a mcgwire homerun ball and wrote "HR #63" on it, i guess you guys would just plunk that thing right into a $3 million auction right?

i'm not even going to bother with the whole "secret authentication team" nonsense. suffice it to say that it's a very odd thing that mastro trumpets the use of john taube and has online bios for everyone from bill mastro to jimmy spence to the guy who runs the shipping department and your resident "beatles expert", but when it comes to your jersey authenticators, for some reason that's a big secret. i'm not even going to ask if you guys are using tony cocchi and lou lampson. i'm not even going to wonder if the reason the jersey authenticators are a secret while john taube is not is because you're proud to be associated with taube whereas you're not proud of who you're using for your jerseys. if you want to keep folks a secret, then why not keep all of them a secret? why are only a select few of them kept a secret? nothing strange about any of that.

p.s. i'll send this post via email as well.

rudy.

[earlywynnfan]

Rick, not to jump into what seems to be a one-sided heated battle, but I appear to be missing the continued venom. Did he misprepresent the bat? YES, and he admitted it. Did they refund your money? YES. Do you trust them? NO. Should we trust them? MAYBE.

I think he was right: take your money elsewhere. I guess I don't know what more you want Doug to do. And I guess I don't see what the point is of continuing this on a public forum.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com