Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

[aeneas01]

some thoughts on the bounty of vintage game used football helmets currently listed at mastro - has there ever been this many interesting helmets listed by an auction house at the same time? i don't think so. in no particular order, here's a closer look at some of the lids with a few comments based on photos. anyway, jump in you helmets heads....



i've never seen this "circa 70s bobby bell" helmet listed at auction before but i'm not too crazy about it. bell wore an rk style helmet (bubbled/flared ear style helmet) for most of his career but switched to the tk style (pictured) in the very early 70s. the thing is, it appears bell may have taken advantage of the larger tk shells that were introduced around the time he made the switch. whatever the case, the dungard facemask positioning of the auction helmet is entirely inconsistent with bell's actual tk lid. notice where the top "t" of the facemask is mounted in the game photos - it's so close to the shell edge that the front rivet can be seen. notice the side mountings in the game photos - the facemask clips are so close to the helmet edge that the facemask is beyond the shell. now compare this with the auction photos - i've never seen an example of bell ever wearing a helmet with his dungard positioned as in the auction. for a look at a beautiful bell gamer, visit "helmet hut" and check out bell's pro bowl lid.




great looking vintage pro bowl gamer - but did it belong to lamonica, was it his '72 pro bowl lid? pro bowlers typically brought their lids with them to these all star matchups - they were simply painted over in gold, red, white, etc. depending on the era. in '72, the year in question (and his final pro bowl season), lamonica sported an rk helmet (bubbled/flared ear), not a tk helmet as pictured in the auction. in fact, it's pretty safe to say that the "mad bomber" was definitely an rk helmet man, which he wore throughout his career with the raiders (although he may have switched to a tk in his final two seasons). the last game lamonica played before the '72 pro bowl was against the steelers, a game that will forever be remembered thanks to franco harris's "immaculate reception" - lamonica can clearly be seen sporting his rk in this final game. of course this doesn't mean lamonica didn't wear a tk in the '72 pro bowl - maybe he was given a tk at the pro bowl because his rk got lost, maybe he didn't want his rk painted red, who knows. whatever the case, as a buyer i would want conclusive photo evidence that lamonica wore a tk in the '72 pro bowl and, if he did, i would also have to feel comfortable with the fact that the lid falls well short of a classic example of what lamonica wore during his great, and i do mean great, years with the raiders. btw, i can't believe lamonica isn't in the hall of fame. btw, btw - there's a great looking lamonica gamer featured at helmet hut.




looks like a dead ringer - it also appears to have very similar game markings as indicated above, markings that could potentially match up even better with the helmet in hand, rotated to reflect same angle. icing on the cake would be a game photo of unitas showing the short-lived "kra-lite-8" logo heat stamped on the back of his helmet. obviously physically examining the lid could tell a different story but from the photos alone it sure looks good. fwiw this helmet has sold for $7,500 & $10,000 in the past.




although this helmet is a much, much better representation than the $50,000 macgregor "gamer" that sold at hunt's and the $10,000 trojan "gamer" that sold on ebay, it has far too many problems to be an actual game helmet used by unitas imo. the most obvious problems are the facemask drill holes - although these sort of drill holes are very common when it comes to authentic gamers, i have never seen a photo or film frame of unitas wearing such a helmet. in the mid 60s, for a year or two, unitas wore an rk helmet with drill holes but their location, compared to the auction helmet, were different. as can be seen in the game photos above, the side drill holes were located just above where a bd facemask would be mounted and the top drill holes were located close to the center stripe and well above helmet edge. in short, the drill holes on unitas's helmet were consistent with a "cowcatcher" facemask (pictured at the bottom left - raymond berry), and not consistent with a clip-on facemask or butterfly clip-on facemask as in the auction helmet. nonetheless, if history is any indication, this unitas "gamer" should easily fecth five figures.




probably my two favorite helmets in the auction - just beautiful rk gamers. if i had to pick one, i would have to go with the atkins (saints) lid. this thing is just a knockout - a classic rk (rac) helmet, a vintage, well-worn, clip-on nop facemask, optional (and rare) factory leather forehead padding, vintage chinstrap, vintage two-piece side decals, etc. throw in the fact that it belonged to a hall of famer and that it's a helmet from the inaugural season of an nfl franchise and it becomes clear how special this lid is. if i were the owner of this lid i wouldn't be particularly happy with the part of the item description that states: "Overall, this helmet is destroyed." - imo pretty goofy wording regardless of the intent. fwiw this helmet has sold in the past for a paltry $500 and for a more deserving price of $2,000. the philbin (jets) lid is another absolute knockout - a classic xl rk (husky) helmet fiited with optional (relatively rare) factory leather padding.




here's that george blanda "gamer" again which recently sold for $4,400 at another auction house. when it was previously listed i created a guu thread discussing the huge problems with this lid - i mention this because this time around the lot description includes 17 pages of "addendum & photographic support" which is a rebuttal clearly directed at what i had posted about the lid here at guu. whoever wrote the rebuttal obviously spent some time putting it together - this person is also, imo, very familiar with game used items including football helmets. and although the rebuttal was interesting and at times an informative read, it contained nothing that would convince me that this was blanda's "70-71 game used helmet".

what the rebuttal did do was try to convince the reader that just about every helmet that comes down the pike could have easily belonged to pretty much any player because, according to the author, "...helmets were used by multiple players without regard to veteran status, star status, salary or any other criteria, save for size, fit, mask, or padding considerations." while this is certainly true to some extent, it's also true that many players wore the same helmet over the course of many of many years (including raiders) - in fact, some players wore the same helmet for their entire careers. like a baseball glove, many players preferred their own broken-in lids as far as the padding was concerned.

anyway, i pretty much disagree with just about everything in the rebuttal including the explanation concerning the outline of the "32" which can be seen below the current decals. i also have to point out that a couple of photos the author used to support his position, that blanda wore a helmet with a white snubber during the 70-71 season, are in black & white and of poor quality. if you look at the higher quality color photos available (as can be seen in the bottom right hand game photo above dated 1970), it's pretty obvious that his snubber is gray. in fact there are even color photos in which the snubber appears almost white - but further investigation proves this effect is simply caused by glare.

as far as this "70-71 blanda gamer" is concerned, i'll ask the author of the rebuttal two simple questions: 1) can you find one photo or film frame, just one, showing blanda wearing a helmet that roughly matches this helmet? and 2) if this helmet was subsequently used by another player (or players) and the drill holes were added to meet that player's facemask requirements as you suggest, then why does blanda's number "16" remain on the back of the helmet? why wouldn't the subsequent player(s) number appear on the back of the helmet?




this is a tak29 helmet and one of my favorite styles given that it represents the transition from suspension helmet to a cell padded helmet. the problem is i have not seen any evidence that riggins ever wore a tak29 while with the jets. during his first 3 years in new york he sported a suspension helmet (tk) and then switched to a cell for his final two years. a tak29 helmet is easily identified from the exterior because both the rivets (that secure the suspension crown) and pegs (which secure the cell padding) are evident. looking at the game photos above, riggins can be seen wearing a suspension helmet (all rivets) and a cell helmet (all pegs). in the auction photo rivets can be seen and so can the peg(s) (circled in red). this helmet has sold for $3,800 in the past.




here are a couple of great looking helmets but, frankly, i wish i could feel better about them. the bart starr helmet strikes me as an authentic packers gamer that was made to look like what starr wore. the macgregor "absorblo" e64l chinstrap, which came with macgregor e505 helmets, is consistent with what starr wore although starr's chinstrap was typically fitted with a metal sizer/fastener, not a nylon/plastic one as appears in the auction. the bt2 (stubby) facemask also strikes me as an addon given what appears to be such light use. and, needless to say, i'm not too crazy about this mention in the item desciption: "On the lower back, the outershell numeric identifiers have been enhanced."

as far as the biletnikoff lid is concerned, as a buyer i would feel much more comfortable if i could locate a single photo (of the many in circulation) that roughly matched the details of this helmet. specifically, a photo that showed fred wearing a lid with only top drill holes (as opposed to top holes and side holes) that hadn't been repainted by the reconditioner. too much to ask? perhaps. especially given the many types of looks his rk(s) showed throughout the years including cracks that were merely taped up. could this lid be one of fred's gamers? i suppose. could it simply be a raiders reject gamer signed by fred and then added to? sure. imo.

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[aeneas01]

continued.....



here are some nice helmets that have sold at auction in the past. a beautiful bengals tk2 (sold for $600), a classic bears wilson f2002 - one of my favorites, that's been attributed to cecil turner (sold for $600 & $480), a great looking cowboys tak29 (sold for $355) and a pac3 oilers lid attributed to nielson (floated on ebay, reached $125 but not reserve).




this is the second best early career elway "gamer" i've seen listed - the best one was fitted the correct facemask and clips. anyway, incorrect facemask withstanding, there's a lot to like about this helmet which, incidentally, sold for $7,000 at auction in the past. not only is it a m155 helmet which is what elway wore during that period, but it's also a m155 fitted with the type of mid-forehead padding configuration elway used (as can be seen in the game photo above). the m155 was an odd lid given that the forehead padding area was home to several unique padding schemes. the extra wide wildcat bumper (inner) is also consistent with what elway wore. the alzado lid looks nice as well and is consistent with what alzado wore when with the broncos, a riddell micro fit. that's the good news - the bad news is that no team (as far as i know) was fitted with more m155 & microfit lids than the broncos. as such, if someone got their hands on an authentic broncos gamer from that era (and they are around), it would most likely be a m155 or a microfit. and i think we all know what that could mean.




some very nice looking gamers. i especially like the timmy brown pro bowl (east vs west) helmet that's painted goldm green paint from his eagles helmet can be seen below the gold paint. the mckenzie (bills) lid looks great as well - gotta love mckenzie, great player and another guy that refused to give up his suspension helmet in favor of the modern padded lids. the mccall (saints) lid is another rk beauty that has sold for $975 at auction in the past. the frank pitts lid is especially interesting and worth a closer look. unfortunately it's not his lid from the chiefs 1969 super bowl season - pitts sported an rk that year.




this dawson "gamer" has made the rounds and according to my records last sold for $7,200. imo this lid has a lot of problems and is most likely not a lid dawson used. it's mentioned in the lot description that the top drill holes are most likely the result of dawson sporting a dungard at one time. the problem is the spacing of the holes is not consistent with the dungard he wore. he did sport a lid for a while with top holes that matched this lid but it was a different helmet. could have dawson have worn this helmet at any time during career? i guess anything is possible - especially given the amount of different lids dawson sported. but this thing is a huge leap of faith imo - more so considering that the side arrowhead decal style (with transparent trim/border), despite when the lot description claims, were not introduced until after dawson had retired.




here are some great looking lids. according to the lot description, the walston (eagles) tk2 helmet was used by him in the 1960 championship game. the problem is the tk2 helmet wasn't introduced by riddell until 1962, two years after the championship game. perhaps this helmet was originally a tk5 (6-point suspension helmet), that walston actually wore in the championship game, which was later reconditioned and fitted with the new 12-point suspension webbing found in the tk2 helmet? hmmm... possible. the fischer (redskins) lid is real beauty - a vintage gladiator "water helmet". the lot description should point out that fischer most likely wore ths very lid in the 1972 super bowl. the pugh (dallas) helmet is spectacular - a classic xl rk "husky" lid which is what pugh wore during his first 5 years in the league. most likely worn in the championship games of the mid 60s against the packers but not the super bowl (he had switched to a tk by the time the cowboys reached the super bowls in the early 70s). the willie davis (packers) helmet is a very rare double-rivet rk "husky" helmet, a real beauty. but as is the case with the bart starr helmet, the numbers appearing on the back of the helmet have been "enhanced". on top of this a helmet hut reproduction suspension unit has been added to the empty sell. a great looking packers gamer to be sure - but i wouldn't pay "willie davis" game used money for this. especially given the number of packers shells (gutted) that have hit the market - possibly packers helmets that were sent to the reconditioner, stripped of their suspension units and rejected. btw i have never seen any of these lids listed at auction before.




the craig morton lid (dallas) is very curious. it is date stamped '73 which means that it could have very well not been ready for use until the '74 season, morton's last year with the 'boys that saw him traded to the giants after only two games of virtually no action. even if it was issued to morton in '73, the guy only tossed 32 passes all year as backup to staubach. so where did the relatively heavy use come from? was it passsed on to another player after morton left as the lot description suggests? if so, why is morton's name still taped on the back? why is morton's name the only one boldly written on the inside of the lid? maybe it was just the cowboys' way of sending morton a message, that he was on his way out - by giving him a well worn helmet from the '73 season to use in '74. whatever the case, it's hardly an ideal representation of a craig morton gamer imo. fwiw this thing has sold for $3,200 in the past.

as a lifelong rams fan i'm always drawn towards rams gamers. i've seen this youngblood lid listed before, it has sold in the past for $3,400, but i'm not too crazy about it. certainly appears to be an authentic rams gamer, but did it belong to one of the greatest rams players of all time? one of the things i don't like about it is the green dot (large) facemask - youngblood typically squeezed his head into a smaller helmet that was fitted with a red dot (standard) facemask. there was only a 5 year window in which youngblood wore a helmet with yellow horns and a gray facemask ('76-'80) - for the first two years of this 5 year stretch, he used single side facemask clips (as in the auction) and then switched to double side clips. as was the case throughout his career, he only sported a red dot facemask during this period as far as i can tell. i would be interested in knowing the date stamp but mastro no longer responds to my requests.




the hornung lid (upper left corner) is one of the several gutted packers shells that hit the market not too long ago - it last sold for $10,800. interestingly, it was fitted with a bd9 facemask and chinstrap the last time around - where did they go? the left "g" decal appears to be better atached this time around as well - there's still some lifting but not as much as the last time it was listed. were the back numbers also "enhanced"? the elijah pitts lid (bottom right corner) is another one of those gutted packers shells i've mentioned - it sold for $1,700 the last time it hit the blocks. the charlie sanders pro bowl lid is a good looking helmet, sold for $1,700 in the past, and matches up nicely with photos of sanders from that year. the dallas texans helmet, attributed to jim swink, is a fantastic loking rk4 helmet - just a real beauty. it has sold for $3,100 in the past. another good looking texans helmet, an rk2 style marietta, sold for $4,200 & $5,000 in the past.




a few more lids. the james harris lid (upper left) sold for $675 the last time t hit the market. like the hornung helmet, this thing has been picked clean as well - gone are the leather jaw pads and all remnants of the facemask clips and facemask hardware. the joe ferguson "gamer" (upper right) was recently picked up on ebay for $385. the jackie slater lid (bottom right) has made the rounds quite a bit at the auction blocks and has sold for $2,100 in the past. fwiw it's one of the more convincing slater "gamers" that makes the rounds - there are several. the munchak lid has sold for $2,200 in the past.


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[both-teams-played-hard]

Robert
This is the best information that this forum can possibly offer. You have cut the supply of "game worn helmets" in half. What's wrong with common players? These guys need to realize that every helmet doesn't need to be a Namath or Unitas.
Thanks for your time and energy!

P.S. I know a guy in San Diego, who saw a Unitas Chargers helmet at a flea market in the mid 70s. He was 10 years old and obviously couldn't afford it. It was $100 and could very well be the same one as the one you posted...

[Jake51]

Robert,

It has been said here many times, but thank you so much for your time and your information! Just fantastic!!

Had a question as well, I seem to remember seeing this Alzado lid in an auction a while back - did you see it and if so, do you remember what it went for?

Thanks again!

Tom

[cohibasmoker]

Robert
This is the best information that this forum can possibly offer. You have cut the supply of "game worn helmets" in half. What's wrong with common players? These guys need to realize that every helmet doesn't need to be a Namath or Unitas.
Thanks for your time and energy!

P.S. I know a guy in San Diego, who saw a Unitas Chargers helmet at a flea market in the mid 70s. He was 10 years old and obviously couldn't afford it. It was $100 and could very well be the same one as the one you posted...

BTPH - you are so right - helmets don't need to be a Namath or Unitas. I just got this Tom Randall Cowboys helmet and it says a whole lot about the character of the players who played back in the day. The helmet came with this email from the seller,

Back in the late 1970's I was the controller for a football helmet manufacturer in Florida. After the Super Bowl in 1979, we received a number of helmets from the Cowboys to refurbish and send back. It was determined that the Randall helmet needed to be replaced in it's entirety. I was able to take it home as a souviner. Unfortunately, that was the only Dallas item I had. Hope this helps fill in some of the history on this helmet. Enjoy.

As for Robert - many, many thanks for the information. A lucid thread without any personal attacks and plenty of great information from a guy who has probably "handled and owned" 100's of helmets.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[nyjetsfan14]

I agree with the rest of the members and while, like most, I have expressed my gratitude on several other ocassions many thanks again for another truly great read. What I like most is that you not only do this research and provide the details for your own personal use but you obviosuly have a strong desire to assist/enlighten others by sharing thus making this a better and more enjoyable hobby. I know I am not the only one who looks forward to your posts, I always learn something new and look at pieces in a different light, for that I am very appreciative!

[princip]

Amazing pics as well. They did a really nice job with these.

One that intrigues me is this Jerry Rhome MacGregor clear shell. For one, I just saw it up on ebay, not too long ago: 64-66 Dallas.......

Now, does anyone happen to have a picture of Jerry wearing this style helmet. I would love to see it. This helmet is unique in every way, and when I first saw the ebay auction I didn't think it was legit. However, now it seems to be?

Jerry Rhome Circa 1966 Dallas Cowboys Game Used Helmet

[kingjammy24]

What's wrong with common players? These guys need to realize that every helmet doesn't need to be a Namath or Unitas.

hey warren

i'm probably misinterpreting your statement here but i think the abundance of superstars/scarcity of commons in many niches has to do with folks recovering their costs in making these items up. i don't know what it would cost to make up a really convincing, top notch unitas helmet. i know if i were to make up a flawless early 90s ripken jersey, it'd probably cost me a few hundred. it wouldn't pay off to spend a few hundred to make up a jeffrey leonard shirt. if i spent a few hundred, i may as well go for the ripken in order to turn a good profit. plus, most of the big houses like mastro simply aren't interested in any "low dollar" items.

i'm surprised at how many extremely rare items manage to consistently show up, as opposed to seemingly more common items. you'd be surprised how easy it is to find a mantle jersey but if you're on the hunt for an andy pafko, you'll probably never find one. Heritage dug up babe ruth's 1933 all-star game shirt yet i can't find a john olerud jays jersey to save my life. it's crazy.

rudy.

[princip]

Robert, you mentioned goofy wording on some of these item descriptions, well, ya gotta love this regarding the Colt's logo.

Pertaining to the Johnny Unitas Late 1960s Baltimore Colts Signed Game Used Helmet (HOF)

"The gamer features the athlete's trademark, single-blue center stripe, as well as the club's famous horseshoe side logos in deliciously flavored minimal mil depth with proper color hue."

[aeneas01]

Amazing pics as well. They did a really nice job with these. One that intrigues me is this Jerry Rhome MacGregor clear shell. For one, I just saw it up on ebay, not too long ago: 64-66 Dallas....... Now, does anyone happen to have a picture of Jerry wearing this style helmet. I would love to see it. This helmet is unique in every way, and when I first saw the ebay auction I didn't think it was legit. However, now it seems to be? Jerry Rhome Circa 1966 Dallas Cowboys Game Used Helmet

the cowboys macgregor clear shell you saw on ebay is not the one currently in the mastro auction - btw the one on ebay sold for $530 and, fwiw, it was autographed by staubach. i have seen three of these cowboys clear shell macs hit the maket in the last couple of years, all identical 100mh lids with dungard dg105 facemasks.

the thing collectors need to keep in mind is that "back in the day" macgregor offered these helmets, nfl dressed, to the public through their catalogs and through sporting goods stores. their target audience was young boys and these helmets are out there. often times the helmets were packaged with facemasks including dg105 dungards - many were purchased for playing around in at the park and others were purchased for autographs. so you have to be careful when scooping up clearshell macs...

here are some shots from a 1967 macgregor catalog - the two kids can be seen wearing a falcons helmet and a colts helmet. you could pick up a two-bar dungard for $7.00 at the time or for $4.95 if you were buying for a team. also note that 1967 was before the 100mh clear shell was offered with removable "pegged" padding - padding was permanently sewn to the shell.




here are a few shots of some macs that have sold during the last couple of years - a colts helmet with the same dungard (white), the cowboys helmet that just sold on ebay, a youth lid with the same type of dungard and a falcons helmet. there's an interesting story to the falcon's helmet - a woman listed it on ebay as a helmet that her husband purchased as a boy, a helmet he used for pop warner and backyard football. an ebay crook (vintageksusports) scooped it up and relisted it as a game worn falcon's helmet that he had acquired, along with other nfl gamers, from an old sports bar in texas. beautiful. btw i'm not saying that every mac clear shell with a dungard that comes down the road is a youth lid purchased from a catalog nor am i saying that all of the macs pictured below are not authentic gamers - i'm just saying that these lids were also sold to kids and never saw the inside of an nfl locker room.

Robert, you mentioned goofy wording on some of these item descriptions, well, ya gotta love this regarding the Colt's logo.

Pertaining to the Johnny Unitas Late 1960s Baltimore Colts Signed Game Used Helmet (HOF)

"The gamer features the athlete's trademark, single-blue center stripe, as well as the club's famous horseshoe side logos in deliciously flavored minimal mil depth with proper color hue."

ha ha ha you beat me to it! i wanted to include that embarrassing quote when i posted about the lids but for the life of me could not remember which helmet it was attributed to - i went back and looked through all of the helmet lots a couple of times to find it but just couldn't locate it again! "deliciously"? can you believe it??? and btw i agree 100% - mastro did a very, very nice job with the photos.

BTPH - you are so right - helmets don't need to be a Namath or Unitas. I just got this Tom Randall Cowboys helmet and it says a whole lot about the character of the players who played back in the day.

you would think that a beautiful gamer would be enough, it is for me. but it's amazing how few gamers not attributed any particular player (or to lesser players) ever hit the auction blocks. where are they? i guess it could be argued that because these helmets did not belong to well known players they were deemed worthless and simply tossed and/or destroyed many moons ago. and that there is a disproportionate amount of vintage gamers once belonging to the league's most famous on the market simply because they were deemed worth preserving and were not tossed and/or destroyed.

i wish that was the case - unfortunately it seems to me that there is a disproportionate number of big name gamers out there simply because it is much more profitable to turn a no-name gamer into a hall of fame gamer without much difficulty given that most collectors are not at all up to speed on football helmets. but thanks to the net that is changing.

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