Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

[lambertisgod58]

I found this information the other day. I know some of us already know, but this is coming directly from Lambert's official website. Thought I'd pass it on. Here the link regarding his game used items.



http://www.lambert58.com/

[34swtns]

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing that.
If more former players took an interest in this hobby there might be fewer fraudulant items sold.

[jhunt28]

"there is an exact reason for this-which may be disclosed at some point in the future"...Now I'm intrigued?? Did he wear some kind of armour under his long sleeves to knock people out??? Now I need to do some research...

[Nathan]

I believe the Lambert jersey was no good from the research and reasons given here. The fact that Jack Lambert says it's no good doesn't really enter into the equation.

The reason I say this is because it's not uncommon for a player to flat-out lie about his old gear. Although Barry Meisel can tell the story better than I can, Wayne Gretzky came out a few years back and made the statement that he owned everything he ever wore and therefore anything on the market was a fake. Obviously that's a mile from the truth. Bobby Orr came out publicly (on a national broadcast, I believe) and said that a jersey of his that was at Classic Auctions was no good because "there's no way we would have worn those in the Cup Finals". Never mind that it was photomatched a bunch of different ways....there are a lot of people that put more stock into what a player says and not enough into what someone who actually is an expert in the field says.

[mvandor]

I believe the Lambert jersey was no good from the research and reasons given here. The fact that Jack Lambert says it's no good doesn't really enter into the equation.

The reason I say this is because it's not uncommon for a player to flat-out lie about his old gear. Although Barry Meisel can tell the story better than I can, Wayne Gretzky came out a few years back and made the statement that he owned everything he ever wore and therefore anything on the market was a fake. Obviously that's a mile from the truth. Bobby Orr came out publicly (on a national broadcast, I believe) and said that a jersey of his that was at Classic Auctions was no good because "there's no way we would have worn those in the Cup Finals". Never mind that it was photomatched a bunch of different ways....there are a lot of people that put more stock into what a player says and not enough into what someone who actually is an expert in the field says.

This seems pretty incontovertible to me. Lambert himself would certainly know something as basic as did he EVER wear short sleeves.

I certainly would take his word over Lou Lampson's absent photo proof to the contrary.

And I wish all major athletes took more of an interest in the hobby and keeping it clean.

[Canseco44]

I have thought about this exact topic alot. I know this is not comparing apples to apples, but I tried to think back to my High School football days(just 11 years ago) and I am not sure if I had the jersey I wore right in front of me, that I could tell you it was for sure the one I wore. That even goes for my basketball jerseys. Now can you imagine 30 years ago! I am not saying he wouldn't remember the sleeve length, I could probably do that, but could an athlete tell, for sure, it was there game jersey from 30 years ago. I would be surprised if any athlete was into their game jersey that much. I am not doubting Jack Lambert, but just athletes overall on this subject. I have a pair of Canseco pants that I got from him that he signed Expo Gamers. They are a pair of Blue Jay gamers that are even labeled 1998 in the waistline. He just signed them that way because of the blue and red colors on the stripes. He didn't even know how to read the waist band coding. I would personally not put a lot of faith into what a pro athlete remembers about there equipment.

Todd Ricks

[kingjammy24]

i think the issue of athlete provenance entirely depends on the particular athlete. they're no different than the rest of the populace in that some of them have great memories and some not so great. some of them are as honest as the day is long and some are downright dishonest. i don't think blanket logic ought to be applied here to say that that all athletes are unreliable or that all athlete provenance is a guarantee. i think it's subjective. unfortunately, in this hobby, that's pretty much what happens. athlete provenance is all treated the same, as if all athletes are the same type of person. it's assumed that if an athlete says it's game worn then it is. there's no distinction of who actually made the comment and whether that specific athlete is reliable or not.

i think the other part that needs to be individually evaluated is the specific claim being made. i think some claims would be realistic for an athlete to be able to make, such as lambert simply knowing whether he wore short sleeves or not, and others, such as hank aaron positively identifying a specific bat used to hit a specific home run in one specific game 34 years after an equipment manager gave it away, would be highly unrealistic. lambert's claim is pretty broad and simple. aaron's claim, on the other hand, is so specific as to be completely absurd.

i think the interesting part in the lambert article is the absolute refusal of the auction house to err on the side of caution and listen to lambert and remove the jersey until more research could be done. anyone know what house it was? looks like an old GFC background to me.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?p=40892

https://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_...ead.php?t=8656

rudy.

[Canseco44]

Well said Rudy. I agree with you on it being a case to case basis. The fact is, to most of the athletes, it is just a job they do and they are not worried about what the strip tag says or what patch is applied to the sleeve. Then again, there are probably some athletes that do know about that stuff.

Todd Ricks

[kingjammy24]

Well said Rudy. I agree with you on it being a case to case basis. The fact is, to most of the athletes, it is just a job they do and they are not worried about what the strip tag says or what patch is applied to the sleeve. Then again, there are probably some athletes that do know about that stuff.

Todd Ricks

frankly, i think if you managed to get an honest player with a good memory, they'd be able to tell you some incredible pieces of insight about some of their items. sure canseco didn't know the difference between a pair of expos pants and jays pants but i'm guessing he didn't much care about his pants. he'd probably be able to give some good insight into how he specifically scored his bat handles though. i think it depends on how personal the item was to the athlete. i think ripken could probably talk for hours about his gloves or ted williams could discuss his bats for days on end. if you look at jerseys, some athletes take a laundry list of customizations indicating they're very particular about their shirts while others wear completely stock shirts indicating that they're likely not as particular. i've seen some athlete interviews where the players discussed certain items and some of the insight was incredible.

plus it seems like in this day and age items are more disposable than they were in the past. many more items are being collected and sold than in the past so the players aren't with their items for as long as they used to be.

i guess what i'm saying in all of this is that there are many variables in the whole "athlete provenance" equation and depending on those variables, athlete provenance can either be an incredible goldmine or a big letdown.

rudy.

[BarryMeisel]

Hi everybody,

This is a good topic, and I think it is important to remember that context is important here.

Nathan is correct, Wayne Gretzky in a newspaper story years ago was quoted as casting doubt on all his game-worn jerseys in the hobby. Now we have photo-matched six of his game-worn Oilers jerseys, including one from the 1988 Stanley Cup Finals, so we know he was not correct.

But we believe we understood the context of what Gretzky was saying. (Since we were not speaking to him directly, we can't say for certain). We believe he was trying to warn collectors away from the flood of fakes. And while we applaud that, we believe Gretzky should have not made such a blanket statement.

Regards, Barry