Should Collectors DEMAND TEAM PAPERWORK?

[G1X]

I think that I may have posted this before, but I will do so again as it is relevant to this topic. In 2006 and 2007, the Washington Redskins picked 16 players each year as their "marquee" players (Portis, Samuels, Cooley, etc.) who wore a new jersey each game. These jerseys are tagged and coded as mentioned in a previous post. The rest of the players were not wearing a new jersey each week, and to my knowledge, the jerseys of these "common" players are not tagged and coded.

In the case where I made a small bulk buy from the team's front office in March 2008 that consisted of their "throwback" helmets from 2002 and 2003 plus a small number of jerseys from 2004 through 2006, I did not request any paperwork. I also did not request any paperwork when I made a small bulk buy from the Eagles' front office in December 2006 (consisting mostly of jerseys from the 2005 season).

In both purchases, there were only a couple of star players involved. Since most of my customers do not demand paperwork, I saw no need to pursue the issue. From my observations as both a collector and dealer, most football uniform collectors seem to not be concerned with paperwork for "common" players as they trust their own knowledge and expertise.

As a dealer, I avoid selling super star jerseys for a variety of reasons. However, if it was my marketing strategy to pursue star players from NFL teams, I would insist on team paperwork for those jerseys for obvious reasons.

My point is that legitimate stuff gets out without paperwork, and if the price is right, those jerseys will sell. It all depends on each collector's comfort level. For those collectors who don't feel comfortable, they can pay the higher price for the piece of paper and peace of mind.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons and WFL jerseys

[beavisrules]

There are some great posts and ideas in this thread. I think that for star players, there should be a more definitive tagging/tracking system, and a lot of the ideas noted in here make sense. The pre-use tagging is a great idea that Meigray implemented. I think the fact that the star players have 16 jerseys (or more) a year is absolutely ridiculous, but that's just my opinion, and not relevant to this thread.

Since I collect more commons than superstars, I agree with Mark that typically I could care less if it comes with paperwork, because the amount of work it would take to fake a common is cost-prohibitive in most cases. If it comes with paperwork, great, a bonus; but not required from my standpoint with rare exception.

However, to be honest, I wish all jerseys (commons included) did simply have a tag sewn in when team issued just like Meigray does. The Bucs equipment manager was in another thread saying all jerseys ordered were carefully inventoried and accounted for. Great - then slap a tag on each jersey, enter it in a basic database, and there you go - a fairly decent system for all in even this basic of form if nothing else.

And let me give you an example of when common tagging is very important (if possible) - commons who become significant stars. I'll give examples - Bertrand Berry, Tony Romo, and any other low draft picks or undrafted free agents who end up doing well. Coming into the NFL, neither of these guys were given much thought - then, the right opportunity came along, and they are now well known players who's jerseys command a premium. However, their early jerseys were viewed essentially as relative commons prior to this, and are very few and far between - tagging on those jerseys would have been ideal to preserve the scarcity of these early jerseys (they weren't numbering 16 jerseys per year initially, that's for sure).

Just my two cents.

[jppopma]

Rudy,

I have seen some universities that will use the barcoding to keep track of their inventory. For example, some of the Michigan State jerseys that I have include a thick plastic barcode sticker on the inner tail. I grabbed one of the jerseys and see that it has the barcode as well as a printed inventory number on it. While it looks to have some wear and tear on the barcode, my guess is that it would still work if scanned.

Maybe some of these schools would be able to shed a little better light on their tagging methods and what problems they may have encountered with barcoding.

Keep it up man,

John

[josportsco]

First of all I want to thank everyone for the posts. This is a very good post and informative. As for J.O. Sports, Inc. we deal strictly in modern football so this post I am making is in regards to modern football. Let me address the identification issue. We use a ThermoPatch that is heat pressed into the inside tail of the jerseys. This ThermoPatch is nearly impossible to remove. On the ThermoPatch we supply the buyer with as much information about the particular jersey: Name of player, date(s) worn, opponent, web address. Also supplied is the hologram which matches the hologram on the COA. This is an identification process we supply on all of our jerseys that we obtain through team and/or players. I have read Rudy’s post regarding his identification ideas and it is a great idea. Although to process the idea you have to have total team support from top to bottom and the man power to support. Talking and dealing with the teams, this is a process is difficult to implement to every team we deal with. As for the Redskins, they have also implemented the ThermoPatch process. They apply the patch to all of their jerseys prior to use. Of note: we do have a database identifying every jersey we have certified and patched.
Anyway, to get back on topic regarding team paperwork. I think what Chris is mostly talking about is should collectors purchase modern game worn football jerseys with team paperwork? Although there have been several different topics regarding the purchase of jerseys with team paperwork. You can dispute either way. What the topic is directed more towards the star players. As a collector you should feel more secure in the purchase of an Adrian Peterson with Vikings/JO paperwork rather than the one’s in auction house that supply their own or third party paperwork. I have personally seen at least 4 Peterson’s within the last 2 years offered for sale or auction that was accompanied without any or third party paperwork. So the question is would you feel more secure purchasing those 4 at around $1000-$1500 or one for $5000+ with Vikings paperwork? Recently GUU/JO Sports have secured a team deal with the Raiders. With that being said we offer guys like McFadden down to R. Brown all are accompanied with Raiders-GUU/JO Sports paperwork with identifiers and unwashed. Although I have not seen any Raiders merchandise in the open market ask yourself: If you are offered a McFadden via personal deal or auction without the Raiders-GUU/JO Sports paperwork and identifiers would you feel comfortable in the purchase? This brings us to the next issue. How do jerseys make it to the open market? Are jerseys sold out of the “back door”? Some may be. Do players take their jerseys and market them? Yes some do. With this being said I can only answer for josportsco. I will break it down per team. Vikings/ Bears/ Raiders- WE ARE EXCLUSIVE. The teams do have the right to hold some (very minimal) inventory to sell through their charity, community, etc. This is why you will see 1 Peterson possibly make it to NFL Auctions, 1 Russell make it to their charity etc. Redskins- We are allotted X amount of jerseys and they hold the right to sell jerseys via charity and any other sources they chose. We have built the cooperation with our teams to be involved in the jersey ordering. WE KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY JERSEYS ARE ORDERED PER PLAYER FOR VAROIUS TEAMS. So now ask yourself again: Would you feel comfortable in the purchase of a Peterson or McFadden without the team paperwork? Let’s move to the player portion. Yes, some players take their jerseys and market them. I think our company answers that question in itself. We have done a deal with Westbrook, McNabb, Holmes etc. BUT josportsco will not do a player deal without a COA signed by that particular player. The way the market is today josportsco has changed its buying and selling habits. We rarely purchase or sell anything without the team or player paperwork. We try to photo match everything and purchase unwashed when we can. Mark Hayne mentioned bulk buys without team paperwork. I personally would feel comfortable in purchasing from Mark but if josportsco is to purchase equipment from the teams we require the team paperwork to accompany the merchandise to help the security of the buyer especially if it is washed.
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']As for the pricing what we are trying to build is a source for the collector to obtain unquestionable merchandise for their favorite team or player. These deals are not cheap!! There for we have to offer such merchandise at said prices. It is funny to me that collectors in one breath complain about bogus merchandise then in the same breath complain that when you find good merchandise the prices are too high. We continue to keep our price integrity. We have collectors that are appreciative that we can supply them with these modern relics and understand the market and hobby and have no problem spending the money that true game worn jerseys should command. I commend GUU and the members that share their information. I hope this helps and can always be reached at jarrod@josportsco.com[/font]

[byergo]

From a cursory glance the luxury of getting an item with team paperwork is a VERY expensive proposition. One that certainly will leave almost 100% of buyers financially buried into an item where they will not only never sell for a profit, but likely take a huge financial beating should they decide to part with the item later. Just my opinion...

[josportsco]

Opinion appreciated. You must be referring to 95% of sports memorabilia. Barring a player making a significant impact or HOF in their sport, the return for any merchandise in today’s questionable market can be limited especially without team paperwork. Remember the major point of this thread is merchandise with team paperwork in today’s market. An Urlacher with team paperwork may not be for you but it sure is for the guy I met at the Chicago show that had me look at an Urlacher that had several issues and was purchased out of auction as game used and it definitely was not used. Should have seen his face when he was having Urlacher sign it as a used jersey and was told it was not worn by him. I’m sure someone will come on and post that they have heard tons of athletes saying they own every jersey they wore so this post is directed towards this particular instance only.

[wideright]

Opinion appreciated. You must be referring to 95% of sports memorabilia. Barring a player making a significant impact or HOF in their sport, the return for any merchandise in today’s questionable market can be limited especially without team paperwork. Remember the major point of this thread is merchandise with team paperwork in today’s market. An Urlacher with team paperwork may not be for you but it sure is for the guy I met at the Chicago show that had me look at an Urlacher that had several issues and was purchased out of auction as game used and it definitely was not used. Should have seen his face when he was having Urlacher sign it as a used jersey and was told it was not worn by him. I’m sure someone will come on and post that they have heard tons of athletes saying they own every jersey they wore so this post is directed towards this particular instance only.

I'm sorry, but being a novice game-used collector this is just scary and intimidating. This instance plus the Favre story are enough to make me not want to get into this market. Is anyone working on some sort of system to chart each jersey an athlete wears and tag it somehow so that it truly makes it GU? Isn't this a big enough multi-million dollar fraud operation that major league sports associations would create a new system to monitor and track items?