O/T - MLB says steroids against the rules since 1991

[kingjammy24]

On June 7, 1991, MLB commissioner Fay Vincent distributed a seven page memo entitled "Baseball's Drug Policy and Prevention Program" to all Major League clubs. A part of the memo read "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players and personnel is strictly prohibited ... [and those players involved] are subject to discipline by the Commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game.... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids....". Vincent says steroids were included in the 1991 memo because of rumors involving one player, Jose Canseco.
The seven-page document didn't cover random testing -- that had to be bargained with the union -- but it did outline treatment and penalties.

Here is the entire, original 1991 memo:
http://www.businessofbaseball.com/do...on_Program.pdf

Vincent emphasized that "There is no place for illegal drug use in Baseball. Their use by players and others in baseball cannot be condoned or tolerated. Baseball players and personnel cannot be permitted to give even the slightest suggestion that illegal drug use is either acceptable or safe. It is the responsibility of all Baseball players and personnel to see that the use of illegal drugs does not occur, or if it does, to put a stop to it."

On May 15, 1997, acting commissioner Bud Selig distributed a nearly identical version of the drug memo, again citing steroids and directing clubs to post the policy in clubhouses and distribute copies to players.

Joel, I'm unsure where you got the idea that steroid use was somehow permitted in baseball prior to 2002. Not only were they illegal in general but they were against MLB rules since 1991, as stated in the above memo.

Rudy.

[Yankwood]

I am SO glad you posted that because that very weak argument in support of all the MANY steroid abusers out there has been sickening to say the very least. And I will say it now, and we'll all know soon enough, there were many more than most people think.

[suave1477]

I think we should start a Ban againts Davids Sun Flower seeds. ever since Derek Jeter has become there spokesperson he hasn't been playing well. I think the seeds should be tested and they put too much dam salt in them lol lol lol

[sylbry]

Thanks for posting the link. I was looking for that.

I have been amazed by responses from baseball fans and people in general about this controversy. Particularly the people who don't believe it is a big deal. Yes it is just a game and yes there was no testing, therefore there may be no hard evidense to prove whether some people were using (even though anyone with an ounce of common sense know better.) What just bugs me is since when is cheating not cheating. Most people grow up hearing the saying that cheaters never win or that cheating is wrong. So why are people fine with it here. Afterall, using steriods after 1991 is cheating. Heck, if it wasn't cheating and it was within the rules then why did they have to sneak around to get and use their drugs?

What I have gathered is people seem to not care about cheating as long as their isn't a punishment. Afterall, if there isn't a punishment then it probobly wasn't that bad, right? Anyone else see this? In my opinion this is disturbing. You are just empowering the future Barry Bonds and the future Ken Lay, ect... to cheat in order to benefit themselves.

If proof is ever found, even if nothing can be done about Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, and the rest of the steriod abusers as far as the record book goes, I would like to at least see them being called out for what they did just to show that American's still care about what is right. This appears to be just another example of the decline in moral values in the US. But that is an argument not fit for this board.

Once again this is just my opinion. I have no interest in arguing it. Just thought I would share to see if anyone else shares this view.

[Swoboda4]

Thanks Rudy for this important thread. Baseball is just not only a game, it's Americana,Father and Son...well you get the idea. Ruin it and you ruin alot. In the beginning I didn't blame the players as much as management,MLB. Some players,who didn't know better(believe me most are not brain surgeons) saw it as a high tech vitamins(In the very beginning)-but it went unchecked and WAS CONDONED by management. The gate was left open and things and competition got worse. Bonds couldn't stand seeing Sosa and McGuire become the kings. So while he saw baseball applaud he went full bore showing that at a level playing field -he was better. He's about to step to the next level and he confused that the same MLB executives applauding McGuire as he hugged Maris' sons are now pointing their finger at him and saying not so fast. BELIEVE ME THE PLAYERS ARE GUILTY BUT MANAGEMENT IS FAR WORSE. You should have seen Joe Torres disgust last week having been asked steriod questions again. He reminded me of a passenger in a stolen car who tells the cops,"I didn't know it was stolen." Oh-and Suave1477-I prefer unsalted pumpkin seeds.

[MVP]

Commissioner Bud spoke about the Vincent letter on the Dan Patrick/keith Olberman show today. He said that the letter was "irrelavent" because it was never something in the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
-Henry

[sylbry]

Commissioner Bud spoke about the Vincent letter on the Dan Patrick/keith Olberman show today. He said that the letter was "irrelavent" because it was never something in the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
-Henry

That guy sure can come up with an excuse for everything.

What really gets me in the whole investigation ordeal is that it took a book to get Bud to do an investigation. LIKE YOU DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW BUD!

If this investigation was worth a damn the first thing the senator would have done after getting appointed is turn to Bud Selig and say, "Now tell me what you knew."

[trsent]

Back online, I'm done talking about Steriods and this whole debate. I gave my views. If they were against the rules, they were not enforced.

[kingjammy24]

Joel, you're always a source of comedy. At any rate, you're correct, they weren't enforced. Blame that on whatever. As of 1991 though, MLB teams were informed that steroids were formally and explicitly "against the rules".

In regards to Bud's reponse to the letter:

1. If the letter was irrelevant, why did Selig reissue it in 1997?

2. Having had some experience in this milieu, I'll say that collective bargaining agreements typically don't include obvious illegalities. It's a ludicrous notion because you'd just end up including the entire US federal legal system in the bargaining agreement. The bargaining agreement may specify things like the MLB disciplinary measures when a player is caught, preventative measures that the union and league will take, the effect of an infraction on player salary, etc. You wouldn't need to include the general notion that illegal drugs are prohibited. It's assumed by all parties that illegal activities are prohibited because all MLB rules are assumed to abide by federal law. That is, if federal law prohibits something then it's assumed the MLB prohibits it as well. To think otherwise would mean MLB rules could circumvent federal law which everyone knows they cannot. Thus there's no way that steroids could have possibly been allowed even if it wasn't specified in the CBA. It had to have been assumed. You don't need to include every single federal illegality in the CBA.

Rudy.

[trsent]

Who are you to tell me I can't keep my views?

I decided while driving across the county for four days I was no longer going to debate topics such as drug use and race relations on this forum anymore.

All of you right wing belivers can keep your thoughts among yourselves.

Then again, I love the views that it is not ok to use a drug that may help you hit a baseball furthur, but nothing should be done for those who ever used cocaine or weed or anything else because it didn't make a diffrence in their play. Oh good Lord, that is a funny thought.