Authentication, Who to trust?

**trsent** · 01-06-2009, 12:52 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

Originally posted by cheardjr

Had a question about a few recent problems i've been having concerning authentication companies. I recently had a problem with a few fake game used and autographed items so as a result i decided to have a few items checked by JSA. One item i had checked was a framed set of Sammy Sosa Autographed ball, Autographed 8x10 and game used bat.

Well the autographed ball and photo both failed and the bat they were unable to authenticate or reject. All 3 items i later realized have authentication and holograms from Global Authentication Inc. The photo is GV 15109 on their web site i will post the other later.

Who do i trust or is this all just a crap shot if it passes as real vs fake?

JSA told me that 90% of Global items are fake, and that they can not authenticate game used items at all. How do i know PSA wont tell me 90% of all JSA items are fake?

Thanks

Wow - JSA said "90% of all Global items are fake" that figure is really scary. I use JSA, but I prefer PSA/DNA as I trust them the most and they are part of Collector's Universe, which I have ties to from their coin and currency grading service.

It would be neat if JSA published that figure if they really said it, as I would love to see Global's reaction.

**schubert1970** · 01-06-2009, 12:53 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

I think a lot of this depends on the tyupe of item and athlete you're persuing. The best thing you can do is research through the forums and any other online resoucres and do your homework. You can never be 100% sure of anything except taxes and death, or getting something signed in person.

**mvandor** · 01-06-2009, 01:50 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

I have little faith in GAI, and would place far greater trust in PSA/DNA or JSA.

It has been my experience GAI has become VERY liberal in authenticating. Of course, they charge you more if they authenticate an item than if they reject it under their policies, so they have a built-in incentive to rubber stamp anything close.

**kingjammy24** · 01-06-2009, 02:17 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

GAI declared bankruptcy.

Access Denied

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/latest-sports-collecting-news/global-authentication-files-chapter-11.html

rudy.

**David** · 01-06-2009, 02:24 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

For autographs (not commenting on game used), in person signing companies are very reliable, as the signings were done with witness and the players are generally under contract to sign. These companies include Steiner, TriStar, Mounted Memories, UDA (and others). The player's hologram next to the signature is a good sign of authenticity. The MLB hologram is also a strong indication of authenticity, as these signings are also done with witness. PSA/DNA and JSA are generally reliable 'after the fact' judgers, though aren't perfect. They don't witness the signing, but are judging later. GAI letters where Mike Gutierrez is listed as expert are reliable, as he's top notch. He left the company early on, so later LOAs won't have his name.

**earlywynnfan** · 01-06-2009, 02:50 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

I have personally submitted just one item to an authenticator in my life, so I'm far from an expert. However, many people have told me that if an item fails from PSA and/or JSA, send it to Global. That scares me.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

**suave1477** · 01-06-2009, 03:08 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

Originally posted by David

GAI letters where Mike Gutierrez is listed as expert are reliable, as he's top notch. He left the company early on, so later LOAs won't have his name.

Well actually that is not necessarily true. Guittierz name may be on the LOA does not mean he was present at ever or examining every item that walks in the door. So the person who is actually doing the authenticating can still be wrong.

As far as GAI they have passed many bad items in my opinion, and it has been noted here in past threads that items that come form the have been questionable.

I have seen them at card shows and hand out LOAS like they were toilet paper anybody and everyone seemed to be getting an LOA didn't not a one fail.

One of there reps once was or still is a member of this forum and every time one of there items was in question and he was called upon he never answered.

I personally believe PSA/DNA & JSA are more trustworthy sources.

Also JSA was once apart of PSA/DNA

**David** · 01-06-2009, 08:06 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

The early version of GAI was very conservatives with autographs. During this this time it was tougher to get an LOA for an item than PSA or JSA. It was in recent times that they became lax. Whether or not Gutierrez was the personal authenticator, the Gutierrez name indicates the LOA is from the early, extra-careful version of GAI.

**sonic** · 01-06-2009, 08:20 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

Autograph authenticators aren't particularly reliable...or scrupulous. Both PSA/DNA and JSA have made some really stupid mistakes. At one point a TV station caught JSA authenticating bogus autographs through a sting they did at an autograph show.

http://www.autographalert.com/news.html chronicles some of the exploits of autograph authenticators. It's a good, eye opening read.

As an autograph collector, I believe that you have to become your own expert if you don't want to get ripped off. Get your items signed in person, or pay a little more and get them through sources such as UDA, GTSM, TriStar, Mounted Memories, Steiner, etc. if you want to be sure that they're authentic. If you have to go through some other source, do your homework.

**sammy** · 01-06-2009, 08:47 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

"JSA told me that 90% of Global items are fake..."

Personally, I believe whom ever states this, or believes this, does not know anything about the business of autograph authentication.

I also personally believe no one at JSA would make the statement the OP stated, because it would be ridiculously false and stupid.

**trsent** · 01-06-2009, 10:29 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

Originally posted by sammy

"JSA told me that 90% of Global items are fake..."

Personally, I believe whom ever states this, or believes this, does not know anything about the business of autograph authentication.

I also personally believe no one at JSA would make the statement the OP stated, because it would be ridiculously false and stupid.

Sammy, I agree with your statement 100% and after discussions today with authenticators about this statement - There is no chance it is true and I would doubt Jimmy Spence would make such a statement.

As GAI, now in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, may have given opinions on questionable items, they have also certified many, many genuine items. I know a dealer who had thousands of items certified by GAI that were all autographed in person at autograph sessions with the players. If all his items are genuine, that would mean every other item authenticated is not genuine based on the statement given to start this thread.

We all know this is not true, as GAI has certified plenty of genuine items as their prices are often more competitive than PSA/DNA and JSA so a lot of people used their services.

**sammy** · 01-06-2009, 11:30 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

Joel,

I don't know the last time we agreed on anything, but I thank you for your comments, and I must state that I also agree with you 100 percent in regard to your statement.

"We all know this is not true, as GAI has certified plenty of genuine items as their prices are often more competitive than PSA/DNA and JSA so a lot of people used their services."

I have many items certified by GAI that I personally sent to them for authentication. It was not that I needed to know, but that others may feel more comfortable with nationally known third party authentication.

They have also turned down items I have sent in, which we have tended to disagree on.

A major contributing factor in my decision to use GAI instead of JSA or PSA/DNA is the cost factor.

Being as PSA/DNA charges 100 just to look at a Mantle autograph, and JSA charges 75, with shipping and insurance both ways added on top of that, a seller's profit margin has been reduced considerably.

It has actually, on a number of times, been more profitable for the authentication company then it was for me, as the owner and seller. That is right, they made more money off of an item then I did.

Another favorable factor in using GAI is if an item does not pass, they don't charge you the full amount as PSA/DNA and JSA does.

To some, they see this as an incentive to just past things regardless of the items probability for authenticity. But I believe they are missing the main point, which is to help collectors and dealers save some money.

As I stated, I have had a number of items turned down over the years which I believe to be real, as well as some that were questionable. I know first hand GAI does not just past anything to increase their bottom line.

It is called integrity. They are constantly trying to improve their abilities and services, and I for one will continue to use them, as well as the other companies.

**jppopma** · 01-07-2009, 12:58 AM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

I agree that the odds just can't be there for 90% of anything they do to be fake. Maybe it was miquoted as 90% of fake items will get a passing grade. Still seems like a bold statement and a stretch, but not near as blanket like.

**cohibasmoker** · 01-07-2009, 03:49 PM

Re: Authentication, Who to trust?

Trust no-one.

I can't understand why people collect autographs when there are safer items to collect in the hobby like Super-Star football and baseball jerseys. And let's not forget vintage football helmets.

Just my opinion.

Jim

Authentication, Who to trust?

Authentication, Who to trust?

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