Gino Cappaletti 1960 Helmet??

[NEFAN]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250361131047

Anybody have thoughts on this one? I asked for pictures of the webbing and maybe some better lighting, no response.

I talked with the curator of the Patriots museum. he is suspicious, mainly becuse of the lack of wear, but also the only 1960 helmet he has is a Spaulding worn by Jim Nance. I know players wear different helmets now, but this was a low budget team.

Any thoughts?

[1986&2004Bosox]

With out more pics I would be cautious. The person says they don't send photos to picture collectors? One side view, no back view, no interior view? I dont know might be great but need more info.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Maybe this does not mean anything but look at the guys feedback 2 of his recent purchases have been Old Blank Helmets. Maybe it does not mean anything maybe it does. I just find it very strange that he wont send more pics. And his overall tone in the listing is not friendly. Take it for what it's worth.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Look at the auctions this guy has won on EBAY recently ALL BLANK HELMETS. Is it me or does this Raise alot of ????

[aeneas01]

some thoughts:

1. more photos of the ebay helmet would be required in order to form a persuasive opinion.

2. as far as riddell's basic helmet models are concerned, they were introduced in the following order: rt2 ('46)*, rk4 ('54), tk5 ('55), rk2 ('61) and tk2 ('62). the ebay helmet is clearly an rk4 ('54) or an rk2 ('61). if it's an rk2 helmet (which can be determined by looking at the type of suspension unit it's fitted with), then i don't see how it can be an authentic 1960 pats helmet given the rt2 helmet didn't hit the market until 1961. in short, the ebay helmet would have to be an rk4 in order for it to be a 1960s pats gamer.

3. although the seller is obviously familiar with riddell helmet model styles, he fails to mention which model this helmet is in both his ebay ad and his email correspondence. further, he offers a photograph in his ebay ad that cearly hides the type of suspension unit the helmet is fitted with. i find this very suspicious.

4. while it's true the ebay helmet appears to be in a condition that would not be consistent with game wear or the helmet's age, i have handled authentic gamers from this era that have been unbelievably pristine. in other words, the condition of the helmet would not necessarily disqualify it as authentic imo.

5. despite what the seller states, the "hat" decal visible in the photo he provided is not "spot on". it's very close but varies from game photos as already mentioned. also, reproduction thin mil vintage decals are becoming more and more common as are vintage thin mil multi-layered decals. not too long ago vintage reproduction decals were made of the same vinyl as reproduction modern decals, made of the same thick mil vinyl - this, of course, was a red flag. but now it's not uncommon to see "authentic style" (thin mil) reproduction vintage decals. so just because a vintage lid is fitted with what appears to be vintage thin mil decals (or even thin mil multi-layered decals), it doesn't mean that these decals are not reproductions. but i will say this - 30-50 years has a way of changing the composition, look and feel of authentic vintage decals, something that is usually quite evident when inspecting a vintage lid in person.

6. the seller's terms, not to mention his demeanor, are absolutely ludicrous. to state that you will not provide an interested party with additional photos yet expect to be paid a large sum of non-refundable cash is nothing short of comical. equally comical is the seller's excuse for not wanting to provide additional photos.

7. years ago i corresponded with this seller and, if memory serves me correctly, our exchanges were not pleasant. i checked my email archives but i i've apparently not maintained emails from that far back. interestingly though, i did come across two very old emails from a couple of other helmet guys i corresponded with back in the day, a couple of guys that mentioned this ebayer in their emails to me by referring to him as "the guy named tony that ends his emails with god bless" - both of these mails confirmed what i remembered about my interaction with this ebayer - in short, both of these guys had nothing good to say about this ebayer. fwiw, it appears that he has changed his ebay name since the last time i corresponded with him.

8. could this be a very rare boston patriots lid from 1960? anything is possible. but i would certainly want a much, much closer look before i even thought about reaching for my wallet.

...

[aeneas01]

so here's the deal on the cappelletti helmet - it's a fake. no doubt about it. someone whose opinion i respect very much recently sent me an email in response to this thread and confirmed what we all suspected: that the seller's suspicious behavior and unruly demeanor pointed to trouble. the person i corresponded with also gave me some background on the lid as well as some background on the seller. as it turns out, the seller is indeed the same guy i exchanged emails with some time ago.

he makes a habit of regularly trying to pass off reproductions as authentic gamers. and he's not limited to football helmets - he's also responsible for fake football jerseys that have made the rounds at well known auction houses, jerseys which have been discussed here.

he has changed his ebay identity often yet continues to include the same "god bless" nonsense when he corresponds via email. this shameless ploy lasts only as long as it takes to con a seller or a buyer; once the jig is up and he is revealed for what he is, a common crook, the "god bless" sentiments are quickly replaced with f-bombs and threats.

back to the helmet - the person i spoke with immediately noticed that the "hat" decal on the seller's helmet was an exact copy of the "helmet hut" reproduction decals as far as shape, size and design are concerned. he also pointed out that the patriots only used a single layer decal in 1960 - the white line that forms the brim of the "hat" was actually the white shell of the helmet. the seller, not up to speed on this fact, proudly claimed in his lot description that the "hat" decal on his helmet was of the vintage two-piece variety - the white "brim" of the seller's reproduction decal is actually a white decal strip laid on top of the blue "hat".

not only does he engage in selling fakes as authentic, but he regularly contacts unsuspecting ebay sellers in an effort to low-ball them on their listed items. currently there is a beautiful vintage cleveland browns helmet listed on ebay - fortunately for the seller, he did not give into the offers including an approach by this person:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110344172814



fwiw, i will be reporting his activities to the fbi in the morning.

...

[NEFAN]

AMEN!! He strung me along on a couple of deals for months, probably while he was building a gamer for me. Luckily I spent my money elswhere rather than wait. I can't blieve I fell for the God Bless lines.

[nyjetsfan14]

[quote=aeneas01;121424]...yet continues to include the same "god bless" nonsense when he corresponds via email.[quote]

I occasionally use a sincere "God Bless" when ending correspondence to family, friends, and acquaintances and while I understand it isn't en vogue anymore I don't necessarily think it is nonsense. It is the person not the words.

[cohibasmoker]

Hi - I would be interested in seeing what the top of the helmet looks like - in particular, the airhole. I sent the seller this request. If he answers, I'll let everyone know.

Before I bid, could you either send me a scan or post a scan of the top of the helmet? I am interested to see the shape of the airhole on the top of the helmet. Thanks

Jim

[cohibasmoker]

Hi - I would be interested in seeing what the top of the helmet looks like - in particular, the airhole. I sent the seller this request. If he answers, I'll let everyone know.

Before I bid, could you either send me a scan or post a scan of the top of the helmet? I am interested to see the shape of the airhole on the top of the helmet. Thanks

Jim

I just got a reply from the seller. Here it is:

hello Jim, it was not a helmet lamp. the helmet lamps are the riddell tk style helmets, not the rt-2 rk style helmets. this has the flared ears. and yes it does have the suspension.the helmet lamps have a big hole on top I have many of those. this does not. there are 6 holes not 32. i am sorry, I did not even want to post the picture I did. I am afraid that someone is going to use this helmet as a reference to do a reproduction and then make mine worthless if I don't sell it and then someone put a fake in a big auction house. no one has a good picture of this helmet. I was trying to be scared by the new england patriots curator into saying he has the only 1960 helmet and it is a spaulding, they did not use riddell. then he tells me he was just trying to fill me out or something and then says the patriots do not even have a 60's helmet. i am sorry, but too many idiots in this business and waiting to cash in on something. I OFFER TO ANYONE WHO WANT TO COME HERE AND SEE THE HELMET. BRING CASH AND NO PHOTOS. AFTER I GET A FAIR PRICE THEY CAN POST THE PICS ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB AND WEEP. THANK YOU & GOD BLESS, TONY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Subject: Re: You've received a question about your eBay item, AFL 1960 New England Boston Patriots Suspension helmet
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:08:24 -0500


Hi - thanks for getting back to me. I ask because I want to be sure that this helmet wasn't a helmet lamp at one time. While I have your ear, how many air-holes are there? Is the suspension webbing still intact? Is the helmet a Riddell Kra Lite helmet? And finally, could a scan of the top of the helmet either sent to me or added to the auction? It would be very helpful. Thanks.

It seems like a very nice helmet but before I bid, I'd like to know exactly what I am bidding on.

Thanks,

Jim


----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: RE: You've received a question about your eBay item, AFL 1960 New England Boston Patriots Suspension helmet


shape of the airhole? they are round and there is more than one! what are you talking about?