Gino Cappaletti 1960 Helmet??

[NEFAN]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250361131047

Anybody have thoughts on this one? I asked for pictures of the webbing and maybe some better lighting, no response.

I talked with the curator of the Patriots museum. he is suspicious, mainly becuse of the lack of wear, but also the only 1960 helmet he has is a Spaulding worn by Jim Nance. I know players wear different helmets now, but this was a low budget team.

Any thoughts?

[1986&2004Bosox]

With out more pics I would be cautious. The person says they don't send photos to picture collectors? One side view, no back view, no interior view? I dont know might be great but need more info.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Maybe this does not mean anything but look at the guys feedback 2 of his recent purchases have been Old Blank Helmets. Maybe it does not mean anything maybe it does. I just find it very strange that he wont send more pics. And his overall tone in the listing is not friendly. Take it for what it's worth.

[cohibasmoker]

Hi - I would be interested in seeing what the top of the helmet looks like - in particular, the airhole. I sent the seller this request. If he answers, I'll let everyone know.

Before I bid, could you either send me a scan or post a scan of the top of the helmet? I am interested to see the shape of the airhole on the top of the helmet. Thanks

Jim

[WHAlers]

Here are a few photos that might help. Compare the eBay offered helmet to these photos of actual Patriots 1960's helmets. Notice that the white border accent line along the top of the Patriots hat decal appear not to be the same lenght on the eBAy helmet as on the actual game worn helmets. Also note the placement of the rivits near the single bar facemask on the eBay helmet vs the actual single bar game used helmet. Lastly it appears that the deacal on the actual game used helmet is slightly narrower from top to bottom than the eBay helmet. There may be some other differences but these 3 caught my eye.

[cohibasmoker]

Hi - I would be interested in seeing what the top of the helmet looks like - in particular, the airhole. I sent the seller this request. If he answers, I'll let everyone know.

Before I bid, could you either send me a scan or post a scan of the top of the helmet? I am interested to see the shape of the airhole on the top of the helmet. Thanks

Jim

I just got a reply from the seller. Here it is:

hello Jim, it was not a helmet lamp. the helmet lamps are the riddell tk style helmets, not the rt-2 rk style helmets. this has the flared ears. and yes it does have the suspension.the helmet lamps have a big hole on top I have many of those. this does not. there are 6 holes not 32. i am sorry, I did not even want to post the picture I did. I am afraid that someone is going to use this helmet as a reference to do a reproduction and then make mine worthless if I don't sell it and then someone put a fake in a big auction house. no one has a good picture of this helmet. I was trying to be scared by the new england patriots curator into saying he has the only 1960 helmet and it is a spaulding, they did not use riddell. then he tells me he was just trying to fill me out or something and then says the patriots do not even have a 60's helmet. i am sorry, but too many idiots in this business and waiting to cash in on something. I OFFER TO ANYONE WHO WANT TO COME HERE AND SEE THE HELMET. BRING CASH AND NO PHOTOS. AFTER I GET A FAIR PRICE THEY CAN POST THE PICS ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB AND WEEP. THANK YOU & GOD BLESS, TONY
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From:
To:
Subject: Re: You've received a question about your eBay item, AFL 1960 New England Boston Patriots Suspension helmet
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:08:24 -0500


Hi - thanks for getting back to me. I ask because I want to be sure that this helmet wasn't a helmet lamp at one time. While I have your ear, how many air-holes are there? Is the suspension webbing still intact? Is the helmet a Riddell Kra Lite helmet? And finally, could a scan of the top of the helmet either sent to me or added to the auction? It would be very helpful. Thanks.

It seems like a very nice helmet but before I bid, I'd like to know exactly what I am bidding on.

Thanks,

Jim


----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: RE: You've received a question about your eBay item, AFL 1960 New England Boston Patriots Suspension helmet


shape of the airhole? they are round and there is more than one! what are you talking about?

[NEFAN]

Once I figured out who this guy is, I know of him and have spoken to him on the phone in the past. I don't beleive he is purposely trying to rip anybody off, he believes it is legit. He told me a story about a disgruntled employee stealing it and hiding it away for years before selling it to a collector. The seller is a bit eccentric and paranoid, but not a bad guy.

The original equipment manager ended up disgruntled because he was fired, but that was well after 1960. Gino was a defensive player and kicker in 1960, he did not move to wide receiver until 1961. The supposed thief would have had no idea he was going to be so big.

As for the Curator from the Pats, I know him personally and was the one who contacted him about this helmet. He came to the Patriots from the NFL Hall of Fame and he knows his stuff. The Patriots have Jim Nance's original uniform to include the helmet from 1960. and that is the only known helmet left in existance.

He is going to talk to Gino personally and see if he remembers having his helmet stolen during the season as this guy claims. In those days, players didn't have spares laying around. So chances are he'll remember.

[ihad_enough]

Description (revised) Here is an great looking vintage helmet. The Boston Patriots came into the AFL in 1960, and wore this style helmet only for that season. This helmet is not one of those new reproductions they come out with a few years ago. This helmet is an off white with multi layered decals, also has the # 20 on single layer vinyl, 2 painted on red stripes flanking the off white center stripe. The player that wore #20 in 1960 was Gino Cappelletti. It has a Riddell single bar facemask. I WILL NOT TAKE PAYPAL ON A HIGH PRICED ITEM LIKE THIS, PERIOD! DON'T ASK! email me for any questions. Also, I do not send pictures to picture collectors. SERIOUS INTERESTED PEOPLE ONLY ASK SERIOUS QUESTIONS. always interested in trades! what do you have? ALL SALES FINAL, PERIOD. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY IT LOOKS, DON'T BID!!!!
Cappelletti spent his 11-year career with the Patriots, from 1960-70 as one of the original members of the squad ... A five-time AFL All-Star selection ... One of only three players to play in every game in the AFL's 10-year history ... Led the AFL in scoring five times ... Holds two of the top five scoring seasons in NFL history with 155 points in 1964 and 147 points in 1961 ... Ranks as the Patriots all-time leading scorer with 1,130 points (42 touchdowns, 176 field goals and 342 PATs ... Holds the Patriots record for extra points attempted (353), made (342), field goals attempted (334) and ranks second in field goals made (176) ... Is currently sixth on the Patriots all-time receiving list with 292 catches for 4,589 yards ... Had his #20 jersey permanently retired by the Patriots ... Selected as a member of the All-AFL 10 Year Anniversary Team in 1971 ... Named to the Patriots 35th Anniversary Team in 1994 ... Named to the Patriots Team of the Century in 2000 at both the wide receiver and kicker position ... Is currently the Patriots color analyst on WBCN's Patriots Rock Radio Network.
Gino Cappelletti

Gino Raymond Michael Cappelletti
The winner of this auction will recieve my scrapbook of pictures of players for the past 85 years from teams in the AFL American Football League, NFL National Football League, USFL United States Football League, and the WFL World Football League teams such as the Atlanta Falcons, Indianapolis Colts, Indianapolis Colts, Buffalo Bills, Chicago Cardinals, Chicago Bears, Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Rams, Cleveland Browns, Dallas Texans, Dallas Cowboys, Denver Broncos, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers,Houston Oilers, Kansas City Chiefs, Los Angeles Rams, Miami Dolphins, Minnesota Vikings, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, New York Giants, New York Jets, Oakland Raiders, Los Angeles Raiders, Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers, St. Louis Cardinals, Phoenix Cardinals, Los Angeles Chargers, San Diego Chargers,San Francisco 49ers, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Baltimore Ravens, Tennessee Titans, Jacksonville Jaguars, Houston Texans, Seattle Seahawks, Carolina Panthers, and Washington Redskins. Some of the college teams are National champion teams such as Florida Gators, LSU Tigers, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, USC Trojans, Penn State Nittanny Lions, Alabama Crimson Tide,Ohio State Buckeyes, UCLA Bruins, Michigan Wolverines,University of Pittsburgh PITT Panthers. The USFL United States Football League teams are the SAN ANTONIO GUNSLINGERS, MICHIGAN PANTHERS,BIRMINGHAM STALLIONS, CHICAGO BLITZ, LOS ANGELES EXPRESS, WASHINGTON FEDERALS, TAMPA BAY BANDITS, HOUSTON GAMBLERS, NEW JERSEY GENERALS, JACKSONVILLE BULLS, ARIZONA WRANGLERS, MEMPHIS SHOWBOATS, PHILADELPHIA / BALTIMORE STARS, OAKLAND INVADERS, BOSTON / NEW ORLEANS / PORTLAND BREAKERS, DENVER GOLD, ORLANDO RENEGADES, OKLAHOMA / ARIZONA OUTLAWS, PITTSBURGH MAULERS, The players in this scrapbook are players such as Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Steve Young, Jerry Rice, Rod Woodson, Deion Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Archie Manning, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Larry Fitzgerald, Johnny Unitas, Sammy Baugh, Marcus Allen, Chuck Bednarik, George Blanda, Raymond Berry, Mel Blount, Earl Campbell, Len Dawson, Larry Csonka, Fred Biletnikoff, Eric Dickerson, Mike Ditka, Tony Dorsett, Dan Fouts, Frank Gifford, Otto Graham, Jack Ham, Bob Griese, Franco Harris, John Hannah, Ted Hendricks, Paul Horning, Elroy Hirsh, Sam Huff, John Henry Johnson, Deacon Jones, Jim Kelly, Charlie Joiner, Jack Lambert, Steve Largent, Yale Lary, Bobby Layne, Ronnie Lott, John Mackey, Gino Marchetti, Don Maynard, Tommy McDonald, Hugh McElhenny, Bobby Mitchell, Lenny Moore, Joe Namath, Ray Nitschke, Leo Nomellini, Alan Page, Carl Eller, Walter Payton, John Riggins, Gale Sayers, Joe Schmidt, John Stallworth, Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, Ernie Stautner, Lynn Swann, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Taylor, Lawrence Taylor, Y.A. Tittle, Norm Van Brocklin, Steve Van Buren, Doak Walker, Paul Warfield, Mike Webster, Randy White, Kellen Winslow, Ron Yary, Jack Youngblood, and a few photos of the Steel Curtain, Front Four, Purple People Eaters, Doomsday Defense, Orange Crush, and the Fearsome Foursome. The scrapbook is great because you can see all the different style helmets these players used throughout the years. You can see them wearing old vintage suspension helmets made by Riddell, Wilson, Rawlings HND-9 and JRC suspension helmets, Rawlings RTS suspension helmet and the very RARE Rawlings Ridge HND-9, Adams, Schutt, Bike, clear shell Macgregor, clear shell Maxpro, Medalist Gladiator. And Riddell RT-2 suspension helmet, Riddell RK-4 suspension helmet , Riddell RK-2 suspension helmet, Riddell TK-5 suspension helmet , Riddell TK-2 suspension helmet, Riddell TAK-29 suspension helmet , Riddell HA-91, Riddell HA-92, Riddell Pac-3, Riddell WD-1, Riddell AF2, Riddell VSR-1, Riddell VSR-2, Riddell VSR-3, and current Proline Riddell VSR-4. Also a scrapbook that covers the Super Bowl MVP (s) from SB 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,3 7,38,39,40,41,42. and 43


On Jan-22-09 at 18:57:21 PST, seller added the following information:
Some know it all on the forum speaks out of both sides of his azz. In one breath he says

"Here are a few photos that might help. Compare the eBay offered helmet to these photos of actual Patriots 1960's helmets. Notice that the white border accent line along the top of the Patriots hat decal appear not to be the same lenght on the eBAy helmet as on the actual game worn helmets. Also note the placement of the rivits near the single bar facemask on the eBay helmet vs the actual single bar game used helmet. Lastly it appears that the deacal on the actual game used helmet is slightly narrower from top to bottom than the eBay helmet. There may be some other differences but these 3 caught my eye." Now I say to him! STUPID. Look at the #11, it is touching the bottom part of the earhole and the hat decal, which brings the hat decal closer to the rivits. ALSO, you are able to bring the hat decal closer to the earhole if you have a #11 on a helmet instead of a # 20, because the #20 is wider. Ever think of that STUPID! This decal is 100% dead on in size and shape. I hope you don't work fro CSI, or they should fire you. Before you knock someones item, do a little more accurate research. I have listed both helmets to show what he is using as a reference. Maybe he wants to bid on it and fool all you into thinking he knows what he is talking about.

[beantown]

Here are a few photos that might help. Compare the eBay offered helmet to these photos of actual Patriots 1960's helmets. Notice that the white border accent line along the top of the Patriots hat decal appear not to be the same lenght on the eBAy helmet as on the actual game worn helmets. Also note the placement of the rivits near the single bar facemask on the eBay helmet vs the actual single bar game used helmet. Lastly it appears that the deacal on the actual game used helmet is slightly narrower from top to bottom than the eBay helmet. There may be some other differences but these 3 caught my eye.

If you compare the eBay helmet to the photo of the #83 helmet, everything seems to line up correctly. The #11 helmet has its number placed very low, which causes the Patriots helmet to sit lower, hence it doesn’t line up with the rivets the way it does on the eBay helmet and the #83 helmet. Also, the white border accent on the #83 helmet, which is slightly turned up on the end we can see, would match the eBay helmet if unfolded….just my two cents….

[mvandor]

I can't speak to legitimacy, but the seller's demeanor and comportment, small feedback history, and poor language tell me I wouldn't buy a pack of gum from him, let alone a supposed NFL relic.