OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

[frikativ54]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

My personal opinion is that I don't care what a player does or says off the field. The media is way too involved with athletes these days.

I wonder how many players we idolize from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's beat their wives, cheated, were homosexual....and we never knew, therefore we didn't care.

I submit that some fans only care today because it is all over the media, 24/7.


I am a fan of the sport and a fan of the athlete...and what he does ON THE FIELD.

I want to see Manny hit the ball, drive in runs and hit HR's. I don't pay for my ticket to sit and wonder what charity he involves himself with or whether or not he's a faithful spouse.

Ballplayers are paid to play ball...not be perfect.

Players are people too. Yes they are often spoiled primadonnas but who are we to try and dictate how they live their lives off the field? Try telling your neighbor he has to go to church or that he must give to a charity. I'd wager that wouldn't fare to well for you.


And yes, Manny doesn't contribute much other than his bat. What about Bob Uecker. Did he contribute much more than catching? What about Edgar Martinez? He was all bat as well. Maybe Manny should be back in the AL and moved to DH.


I respect the uber straight and narrow players....but I don't begrudge the ones that aren't perfect.

Being homosexual counts in with beating your wife and cheating? While I care mostly about players' on-field actions, if the guy is a jerk, then I lose all respect for him. I've always liked Manny, but if that is true about not wanting to do charity work, then I'll think twice about rooting for him. How hard is it to write a check and show up for an event for kids with cancer? After the Astros were done, I would always switch over to the Dodgers to see Manny hit. But I'll never forget how he said he'd want to spend the rest of his career as a Dodger, and after the season, said he was really after the highest bidder. I'm quickly losing all respect for the guy. Character does count, and I'm saying this as someone who's an Astros fan - far removed from pro or anti BoSox bias.

[chakes89]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

I don't believe any of the crap out there coming from the Sox regarding Manny and his so called "bad behavior"

In my opinion, it just sounds like they are trying to say he is "damaged goods", for lack of a better term, so that none of their competition wants to sign him.


I don't know about most people but I care more about what players do "Inside the lines" then what they do "Outside the lines" in their private life

For example, Ty Cobb beat the hell out of an umpire after a game and was a known racist.

Yet he still got into the HOF because of what he did on the field.


I also don't care if Barry Bonds used steroids. Same with Palmeiro, Big Mac and Sosa. The players should be able to do what they want to their bodies. Yes, I know steroids are illegal but they shouldn't be, because when used properly they can be very beneficial for the human body in regards to injury recovery and overall wellness

[skyking26]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

Here we are 2 weeks before ST and big names are still on the sidelines. This is one of those strange years. No, not a collusion year, a year where it is unsure where the economy is headed and owners are not going to lay out big $$...except for NYY. They have not heard.

I see Manny with LAD, signing a deal for about a year. I see Adam Dunn with the Nationals for a year, far under what and he wanted and not where he wanted to be... It's just a statement of the times.

[Mr.3000]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

I don't believe any of the crap out there coming from the Sox regarding Manny and his so called "bad behavior"

In my opinion, it just sounds like they are trying to say he is "damaged goods", for lack of a better term, so that none of their competition wants to sign him.


I don't know about most people but I care more about what players do "Inside the lines" then what they do "Outside the lines" in their private life

For example, Ty Cobb beat the hell out of an umpire after a game and was a known racist.

Yet he still got into the HOF because of what he did on the field.


I also don't care if Barry Bonds used steroids. Same with Palmeiro, Big Mac and Sosa. The players should be able to do what they want to their bodies. Yes, I know steroids are illegal but they shouldn't be, because when used properly they can be very beneficial for the human body in regards to injury recovery and overall wellness

Thank you. Thought I was the only one these days that doesn't care what a player does with his personal life.

[Mr.3000]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

Being homosexual counts in with beating your wife and cheating? While I care mostly about players' on-field actions, if the guy is a jerk, then I lose all respect for him. I've always liked Manny, but if that is true about not wanting to do charity work, then I'll think twice about rooting for him. How hard is it to write a check and show up for an event for kids with cancer? After the Astros were done, I would always switch over to the Dodgers to see Manny hit. But I'll never forget how he said he'd want to spend the rest of his career as a Dodger, and after the season, said he was really after the highest bidder. I'm quickly losing all respect for the guy. Character does count, and I'm saying this as someone who's an Astros fan - far removed from pro or anti BoSox bias.

Read post #22

Thank you.

[Tedw9]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

I am a lifelong Sox fan and let me start by saying I do appreciate what Manny helped the team do. But to say that Boston management treated him wrong or that they are trying to say he is damaged goods? WHAT?? Did anybody follow what happened in Boston the past few years? He tried to fake an injury, he took WEEKS off each season when the team needed him most, he doesn't run out grounders or hits, he only plays hard in the outfield when he feels like it and while he was doing that he was being paid over 20 MILLION a year! Sure, he can hit the leather off a ball, but that is only HALF of his job. He was paid, very well, to be a left fielder. He was paid to play hard, every play, every at bat. He did that when he felt like it.

Do I appreciate the talent he has to hit, sure I do. You don't see talent like that but once in a lifetime. I appreciate what he did in Sox uniform, but I don't think that because he was a great hitter excused him from doing his job or quitting on his team. Are you there to play baseball or talk on the cell phone Manny?

It is obvious that the Dodgers fans on the board have not had their taste of Manny yet. You had him for what, a few months? Come talk to us Sox fans when your new hero decides to sit for a few weeks in the middle of a pennant race. Or when he decides that the millions he is making is not enough and starts the "woe is me" in the media. I'm curious to see how long the love fest will last.

[eisenreich8]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

And that, my friends, is the "rest of the story"..............

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

I am a lifelong Sox fan and let me start by saying I do appreciate what Manny helped the team do. But to say that Boston management treated him wrong or that they are trying to say he is damaged goods? WHAT?? Did anybody follow what happened in Boston the past few years? He tried to fake an injury, he took WEEKS off each season when the team needed him most, he doesn't run out grounders or hits, he only plays hard in the outfield when he feels like it and while he was doing that he was being paid over 20 MILLION a year! Sure, he can hit the leather off a ball, but that is only HALF of his job. He was paid, very well, to be a left fielder. He was paid to play hard, every play, every at bat. He did that when he felt like it.

Do I appreciate the talent he has to hit, sure I do. You don't see talent like that but once in a lifetime. I appreciate what he did in Sox uniform, but I don't think that because he was a great hitter excused him from doing his job or quitting on his team. Are you there to play baseball or talk on the cell phone Manny?

It is obvious that the Dodgers fans on the board have not had their taste of Manny yet. You had him for what, a few months? Come talk to us Sox fans when your new hero decides to sit for a few weeks in the middle of a pennant race. Or when he decides that the millions he is making is not enough and starts the "woe is me" in the media. I'm curious to see how long the love fest will last.

Tedw9,

I understand your anger, as I do all fans of a team who witnessed the dethroning of their teams superstar.......it's painful for all to see.

I also understand the predictions of Manny doing this, and Manny doing that, after he gets the bucks, to the next team hw plays on.

But IMHO you guys are way off base. Here's why....

You are referring to Manny quitting on his team, and all that stuff. Yes, he did. But he did it after he was shown the ultimate disrespect from the teams management and ownership. The Red Sox WAIVED HIM in 2003 in an attempt to get rid of him and that large contract. Manny could have copped a 'tude right then and there, but he kept his free-spirited happy personality, and WON YOU FANS A WORLD SERIES. So....where is the outrage from you fans over that???

I'll tell you where it is. It's misdirected into an explanation like Tedw9's here. You all jumped on the "Bash MANNY!" bandwagon, instead of backing him. So, he handled it the way he saw fit. I'm not condoning his behavior, but it got to the point where everyone in Boston was basically calling for a pulic linching of this guy.

So, since Manny could back it up.....he snubbed the team to get out. HOW can you blame him for doing that to a team whose players, and a city whose fans, has all turned against him?

Manny may be looking for big bucks, and that is his right in the system that is set up. That said, I believe WHEREVER he ends up signing (and I hope it is in Chavez Ravine) I believe he knows he's working for his legacy, and possibly one last additional contract if he plays well. So we shall see, but I say where ever he ends up, he plays like the superstar he is. The Boston situation was ugly, and it ended badly.......but the Red Sox organization crapped down the throat of their best player FIRST....not the other way around. You have to understand that fact before you go on your next "Manny Bashing" routine.

[dodgerbats]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

WOW suicide_squeeze!

Very accurate!

Not a Huge Manny fan by any means, but Boston did crap on him for sure! Boston has Great Fans, but many of their fans threw Manny under the bus! Manny obviously got his feelings hurt!

Mark

[markize]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

I could care less about Manny, the Red Sox, or the Dodgers, but I need to know.....it's not ok for the Sox to do what they can to pay him less, but it's ok for him to quit on his team? Plus there is the integrity issue-faking injuries. Ok, so you were disrespected, but play hard, make the management look bad, and then go get your cash.

Mark

[Mr.3000]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

I could care less about Manny, the Red Sox, or the Dodgers, but I need to know.....it's not ok for the Sox to do what they can to pay him less, but it's ok for him to quit on his team? Plus there is the integrity issue-faking injuries. Ok, so you were disrespected, but play hard, make the management look bad, and then go get your cash.

Mark

Outside of the media and the tabloids, I don't see any of his stats indicating that he ever didn't play hard or that he quit on his team. His last 100 games for Boston, 109 hits, 20 HR, 68 RBI, .299 BA.....damn good for a "quitter".

Again, I am not a Manny fan but I hate to see someone unjustly trashed. It's quite pathetic....especially when it's obvious someone is buying into the media garbage and not the actual stats or facts.

Show me one stat that proves he didn't give his all. And I said STAT.....not rumor, not article and not media gossip.

[markize]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

Outside of the media and the tabloids, I don't see any of his stats indicating that he ever didn't play hard or that he quit on his team. His last 100 games for Boston, 109 hits, 20 HR, 68 RBI, .299 BA.....damn good for a "quitter".

Again, I am not a Manny fan but I hate to see someone unjustly trashed. It's quite pathetic....especially when it's obvious someone is buying into the media garbage and not the actual stats or facts.

Show me one stat that proves he didn't give his all. And I said STAT.....not rumor, not article and not media gossip.

Is there a stat for lack of integrity? One that shows when a player LIES about an injury? Is there a stat that shows when a player doesn't run out a batted ball? Is there a stat that shows a player dog it in the outfield? I don't care about the stats you regurgitated. Yes, they are GREAT! How much better could they have been if he didnt sit out, or didn't take time off for that painful knee "injury"? These things aren't media rumor or gossip. If you watched a game, you would see it. I watched a few, and it is obvious. The guy husteled when he wanted to, and played hard when he wanted to. I'm sorry there aren't stats kept for hustle, effort, and INTEGRITY.

Mark

n

[Tedw9]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

Tedw9,
You are referring to Manny quitting on his team, and all that stuff. Yes, he did. But he did it after he was shown the ultimate disrespect from the teams management and ownership. The Red Sox WAIVED HIM in 2003 in an attempt to get rid of him and that large contract.

First, let me quote an article I found online that deals with that season. These are things that Manny did BEFORE he was waived.


"Flash back to August. Martinez spent some time on the shelf due to a disease called pharyngitis. At the time, it perhaps sounded like a first cousin to pneumonia or something. The problem is that pharyngitis is, in layman's terms, a sore throat. To clarify this further, acute nasopharyngitis, according to the Guinness Book Of World Records, is listed as the world's most common disease: the common cold. A sore throat is what caused Martinez to miss a few turns in the rotation.

Ramirez, who must have some Jim Palmer in him, observed Pedro, then miraculously came down with the same symptoms in late August. He was deemed unfit to play the August 29-31 weekend series against the Yankees at Fenway Park. Without him, the Sox won the opener, 10-5, then dropped the next two, 10-7 and 8-4. Things would have been okay, if only he hadn't been spotted having dinner/drinks at a restaurant at the Ritz Carlton with Yankee infielder (and Pedro killer) Enrique Wilson, his former Cleveland teammate.

All sorts of alibis and qualifiers came out almost instantly. Why was Ramirez at the Ritz? Because he lives there. He was not drinking, he doesn't drink. He was only there for a short time. It still left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but then came the next week and things got worse.

Ramirez blew off a team-mandated medical checkup early the next week. Then, out in Philadelphia, he refused to pinch hit in a game because he said he wasn't up to it. The team moved on to Chicago, and Ramirez declared himself fit to play. But Grady Little, in what had to go down as his high water mark as Red Sox manager, benched him for the opener, a game won by the Red Sox, 2-1. The players were with Little all the way, and the move won the manager a ton of respect.

Combine these shenanigans with base running gaffes, forgetting how many outs there are out in the field, and up until the postseason, a perceived indifference to the importance of baseball to the New England region, and you have an overpaid superstar who is more valuable to the team by subtracting his huge salary rather than keeping him for his massive offensive potential."

As I said, this all happened BEFORE he was waived.

And as for those who want the stats to show he quit on his team, there is more to this than just stats. Not running out grounders, standing at the plate watching long fly balls thinking every one is a home run, becoming injuried each season around the same time, all those things are not giving your all for the team. There is more than stats involved, there is heart. But, for those who ask, here are some stats for you.

In 2006 he played in 130 games and in 2007 he played in 133 games. In previous two seasons he missed an average of 10 games. Low end that is about an average of missing 2 games a month in 04 and 05 and an average of 6 games a month in 06 and 07 using an April through September schedule. Now I can see an occasional day off for rest, but most of those were because he was "hurt". Yes, when he played he had great stats, but stats do not show heart or hustle. These are things stats do not show, but you have to see. And watching the Sox as much as I do, I saw with my own eyes.

Now don't get me wrong, I respect what he can do at the plate. I've never seen a hitter like him, he is incredible. I guess I am just more of a fan of a player who gives 100% all the time. Call me old fashioned.

[Mr.3000]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

First, let me quote an article I found online that deals with that season. These are things that Manny did BEFORE he was waived.


"Flash back to August. Martinez spent some time on the shelf due to a disease called pharyngitis. At the time, it perhaps sounded like a first cousin to pneumonia or something. The problem is that pharyngitis is, in layman's terms, a sore throat. To clarify this further, acute nasopharyngitis, according to the Guinness Book Of World Records, is listed as the world's most common disease: the common cold. A sore throat is what caused Martinez to miss a few turns in the rotation.

Ramirez, who must have some Jim Palmer in him, observed Pedro, then miraculously came down with the same symptoms in late August. He was deemed unfit to play the August 29-31 weekend series against the Yankees at Fenway Park. Without him, the Sox won the opener, 10-5, then dropped the next two, 10-7 and 8-4. Things would have been okay, if only he hadn't been spotted having dinner/drinks at a restaurant at the Ritz Carlton with Yankee infielder (and Pedro killer) Enrique Wilson, his former Cleveland teammate.

All sorts of alibis and qualifiers came out almost instantly. Why was Ramirez at the Ritz? Because he lives there. He was not drinking, he doesn't drink. He was only there for a short time. It still left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but then came the next week and things got worse.

Ramirez blew off a team-mandated medical checkup early the next week. Then, out in Philadelphia, he refused to pinch hit in a game because he said he wasn't up to it. The team moved on to Chicago, and Ramirez declared himself fit to play. But Grady Little, in what had to go down as his high water mark as Red Sox manager, benched him for the opener, a game won by the Red Sox, 2-1. The players were with Little all the way, and the move won the manager a ton of respect.

Combine these shenanigans with base running gaffes, forgetting how many outs there are out in the field, and up until the postseason, a perceived indifference to the importance of baseball to the New England region, and you have an overpaid superstar who is more valuable to the team by subtracting his huge salary rather than keeping him for his massive offensive potential."

As I said, this all happened BEFORE he was waived.

And as for those who want the stats to show he quit on his team, there is more to this than just stats. Not running out grounders, standing at the plate watching long fly balls thinking every one is a home run, becoming injuried each season around the same time, all those things are not giving your all for the team. There is more than stats involved, there is heart. But, for those who ask, here are some stats for you.

In 2006 he played in 130 games and in 2007 he played in 133 games. In previous two seasons he missed an average of 10 games. Low end that is about an average of missing 2 games a month in 04 and 05 and an average of 6 games a month in 06 and 07 using an April through September schedule. Now I can see an occasional day off for rest, but most of those were because he was "hurt". Yes, when he played he had great stats, but stats do not show heart or hustle. These are things stats do not show, but you have to see. And watching the Sox as much as I do, I saw with my own eyes.

Now don't get me wrong, I respect what he can do at the plate. I've never seen a hitter like him, he is incredible. I guess I am just more of a fan of a player who gives 100% all the time. Call me old fashioned.

I agree with you on this. If my entire posts were read everyone would see that I've already said I am not a fan of Manny, nor have I ever been. I actually put Manny in the list of players I don't like. That said, he will go down as one of the greatest hitters of the game. Do I wish he played harder? Certainly. He'd then be easier to like. My position in this thread is mainly this - we, as fans and collectors are far too involved in players day to day lives and what they do off the field. Maybe ignorance is bliss. Sometime I wish I didn't know or didn't hear all of the garbage the media spews out about players and how everything a player does is viewed negatively. I say, to each their own. Not ever player is or can be a perfect role model and I don't expect them to be.

Manny may be a clown, but he puts up numbers. Good enough for me. Cal played the game the right way. Great for him. Jeter plays hard. Love watching him play. My all time favorite player, Pete Rose, knew how to play the game. Not many players today do. Eckstein plays hard. Then you have the flip side to those good players. You have Manny not hustling and not wanting to play in Boston anymore. You have pedro shutting himself down midway through a season.

Maybe I just except the good with the bad. Same with baseball as in life. I don't overly upset by an athlete who doesn't affect my daily life.

Just my .02


Note - It's difficult at time to read someones tone when reading written word. Nothing I say is meant to be argumentative. I am merely having a lighthearted discussion with everyone here.

[Tedw9]

Re: OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

Note - It's difficult at time to read someones tone when reading written word. Nothing I say is meant to be argumentative. I am merely having a lighthearted discussion with everyone here.

I am with you 100%. I think this is a fun debate, I respect EVERYONES opinion as long as it agrees with mine! Just kidding. I do respect everyones opinion on this topic and every other topic they post about. I love this board and respect all those who post here. So I hope that anyone who I quote or respond to does not take it wrong, to me this is just a fun discussion. You all are good peeps.

And I agree with you about the personal side of players, it has nothing to do with them on the field. But I must admit I do hearing about the good things they do off the field. We have enough bad heaped upon us each night on the news, the good stories help balance it out if that makes sense.

This has been a fun thread, thank you all for the intelligent and respectful responses. There are some very smart and passionate fans on here.