OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'

[Mr.3000]

I could care less about Manny, the Red Sox, or the Dodgers, but I need to know.....it's not ok for the Sox to do what they can to pay him less, but it's ok for him to quit on his team? Plus there is the integrity issue-faking injuries. Ok, so you were disrespected, but play hard, make the management look bad, and then go get your cash.

Mark

Outside of the media and the tabloids, I don't see any of his stats indicating that he ever didn't play hard or that he quit on his team. His last 100 games for Boston, 109 hits, 20 HR, 68 RBI, .299 BA.....damn good for a "quitter".

Again, I am not a Manny fan but I hate to see someone unjustly trashed. It's quite pathetic....especially when it's obvious someone is buying into the media garbage and not the actual stats or facts.

Show me one stat that proves he didn't give his all. And I said STAT.....not rumor, not article and not media gossip.

[markize]

Outside of the media and the tabloids, I don't see any of his stats indicating that he ever didn't play hard or that he quit on his team. His last 100 games for Boston, 109 hits, 20 HR, 68 RBI, .299 BA.....damn good for a "quitter".

Again, I am not a Manny fan but I hate to see someone unjustly trashed. It's quite pathetic....especially when it's obvious someone is buying into the media garbage and not the actual stats or facts.

Show me one stat that proves he didn't give his all. And I said STAT.....not rumor, not article and not media gossip.

Is there a stat for lack of integrity? One that shows when a player LIES about an injury? Is there a stat that shows when a player doesn't run out a batted ball? Is there a stat that shows a player dog it in the outfield? I don't care about the stats you regurgitated. Yes, they are GREAT! How much better could they have been if he didnt sit out, or didn't take time off for that painful knee "injury"? These things aren't media rumor or gossip. If you watched a game, you would see it. I watched a few, and it is obvious. The guy husteled when he wanted to, and played hard when he wanted to. I'm sorry there aren't stats kept for hustle, effort, and INTEGRITY.

Mark

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[Tedw9]

Tedw9,
You are referring to Manny quitting on his team, and all that stuff. Yes, he did. But he did it after he was shown the ultimate disrespect from the teams management and ownership. The Red Sox WAIVED HIM in 2003 in an attempt to get rid of him and that large contract.

First, let me quote an article I found online that deals with that season. These are things that Manny did BEFORE he was waived.


"Flash back to August. Martinez spent some time on the shelf due to a disease called pharyngitis. At the time, it perhaps sounded like a first cousin to pneumonia or something. The problem is that pharyngitis is, in layman's terms, a sore throat. To clarify this further, acute nasopharyngitis, according to the Guinness Book Of World Records, is listed as the world's most common disease: the common cold. A sore throat is what caused Martinez to miss a few turns in the rotation.

Ramirez, who must have some Jim Palmer in him, observed Pedro, then miraculously came down with the same symptoms in late August. He was deemed unfit to play the August 29-31 weekend series against the Yankees at Fenway Park. Without him, the Sox won the opener, 10-5, then dropped the next two, 10-7 and 8-4. Things would have been okay, if only he hadn't been spotted having dinner/drinks at a restaurant at the Ritz Carlton with Yankee infielder (and Pedro killer) Enrique Wilson, his former Cleveland teammate.

All sorts of alibis and qualifiers came out almost instantly. Why was Ramirez at the Ritz? Because he lives there. He was not drinking, he doesn't drink. He was only there for a short time. It still left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but then came the next week and things got worse.

Ramirez blew off a team-mandated medical checkup early the next week. Then, out in Philadelphia, he refused to pinch hit in a game because he said he wasn't up to it. The team moved on to Chicago, and Ramirez declared himself fit to play. But Grady Little, in what had to go down as his high water mark as Red Sox manager, benched him for the opener, a game won by the Red Sox, 2-1. The players were with Little all the way, and the move won the manager a ton of respect.

Combine these shenanigans with base running gaffes, forgetting how many outs there are out in the field, and up until the postseason, a perceived indifference to the importance of baseball to the New England region, and you have an overpaid superstar who is more valuable to the team by subtracting his huge salary rather than keeping him for his massive offensive potential."

As I said, this all happened BEFORE he was waived.

And as for those who want the stats to show he quit on his team, there is more to this than just stats. Not running out grounders, standing at the plate watching long fly balls thinking every one is a home run, becoming injuried each season around the same time, all those things are not giving your all for the team. There is more than stats involved, there is heart. But, for those who ask, here are some stats for you.

In 2006 he played in 130 games and in 2007 he played in 133 games. In previous two seasons he missed an average of 10 games. Low end that is about an average of missing 2 games a month in 04 and 05 and an average of 6 games a month in 06 and 07 using an April through September schedule. Now I can see an occasional day off for rest, but most of those were because he was "hurt". Yes, when he played he had great stats, but stats do not show heart or hustle. These are things stats do not show, but you have to see. And watching the Sox as much as I do, I saw with my own eyes.

Now don't get me wrong, I respect what he can do at the plate. I've never seen a hitter like him, he is incredible. I guess I am just more of a fan of a player who gives 100% all the time. Call me old fashioned.

[Mr.3000]

First, let me quote an article I found online that deals with that season. These are things that Manny did BEFORE he was waived.


"Flash back to August. Martinez spent some time on the shelf due to a disease called pharyngitis. At the time, it perhaps sounded like a first cousin to pneumonia or something. The problem is that pharyngitis is, in layman's terms, a sore throat. To clarify this further, acute nasopharyngitis, according to the Guinness Book Of World Records, is listed as the world's most common disease: the common cold. A sore throat is what caused Martinez to miss a few turns in the rotation.

Ramirez, who must have some Jim Palmer in him, observed Pedro, then miraculously came down with the same symptoms in late August. He was deemed unfit to play the August 29-31 weekend series against the Yankees at Fenway Park. Without him, the Sox won the opener, 10-5, then dropped the next two, 10-7 and 8-4. Things would have been okay, if only he hadn't been spotted having dinner/drinks at a restaurant at the Ritz Carlton with Yankee infielder (and Pedro killer) Enrique Wilson, his former Cleveland teammate.

All sorts of alibis and qualifiers came out almost instantly. Why was Ramirez at the Ritz? Because he lives there. He was not drinking, he doesn't drink. He was only there for a short time. It still left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but then came the next week and things got worse.

Ramirez blew off a team-mandated medical checkup early the next week. Then, out in Philadelphia, he refused to pinch hit in a game because he said he wasn't up to it. The team moved on to Chicago, and Ramirez declared himself fit to play. But Grady Little, in what had to go down as his high water mark as Red Sox manager, benched him for the opener, a game won by the Red Sox, 2-1. The players were with Little all the way, and the move won the manager a ton of respect.

Combine these shenanigans with base running gaffes, forgetting how many outs there are out in the field, and up until the postseason, a perceived indifference to the importance of baseball to the New England region, and you have an overpaid superstar who is more valuable to the team by subtracting his huge salary rather than keeping him for his massive offensive potential."

As I said, this all happened BEFORE he was waived.

And as for those who want the stats to show he quit on his team, there is more to this than just stats. Not running out grounders, standing at the plate watching long fly balls thinking every one is a home run, becoming injuried each season around the same time, all those things are not giving your all for the team. There is more than stats involved, there is heart. But, for those who ask, here are some stats for you.

In 2006 he played in 130 games and in 2007 he played in 133 games. In previous two seasons he missed an average of 10 games. Low end that is about an average of missing 2 games a month in 04 and 05 and an average of 6 games a month in 06 and 07 using an April through September schedule. Now I can see an occasional day off for rest, but most of those were because he was "hurt". Yes, when he played he had great stats, but stats do not show heart or hustle. These are things stats do not show, but you have to see. And watching the Sox as much as I do, I saw with my own eyes.

Now don't get me wrong, I respect what he can do at the plate. I've never seen a hitter like him, he is incredible. I guess I am just more of a fan of a player who gives 100% all the time. Call me old fashioned.

I agree with you on this. If my entire posts were read everyone would see that I've already said I am not a fan of Manny, nor have I ever been. I actually put Manny in the list of players I don't like. That said, he will go down as one of the greatest hitters of the game. Do I wish he played harder? Certainly. He'd then be easier to like. My position in this thread is mainly this - we, as fans and collectors are far too involved in players day to day lives and what they do off the field. Maybe ignorance is bliss. Sometime I wish I didn't know or didn't hear all of the garbage the media spews out about players and how everything a player does is viewed negatively. I say, to each their own. Not ever player is or can be a perfect role model and I don't expect them to be.

Manny may be a clown, but he puts up numbers. Good enough for me. Cal played the game the right way. Great for him. Jeter plays hard. Love watching him play. My all time favorite player, Pete Rose, knew how to play the game. Not many players today do. Eckstein plays hard. Then you have the flip side to those good players. You have Manny not hustling and not wanting to play in Boston anymore. You have pedro shutting himself down midway through a season.

Maybe I just except the good with the bad. Same with baseball as in life. I don't overly upset by an athlete who doesn't affect my daily life.

Just my .02


Note - It's difficult at time to read someones tone when reading written word. Nothing I say is meant to be argumentative. I am merely having a lighthearted discussion with everyone here.

[Tedw9]

Note - It's difficult at time to read someones tone when reading written word. Nothing I say is meant to be argumentative. I am merely having a lighthearted discussion with everyone here.

I am with you 100%. I think this is a fun debate, I respect EVERYONES opinion as long as it agrees with mine! Just kidding. I do respect everyones opinion on this topic and every other topic they post about. I love this board and respect all those who post here. So I hope that anyone who I quote or respond to does not take it wrong, to me this is just a fun discussion. You all are good peeps.

And I agree with you about the personal side of players, it has nothing to do with them on the field. But I must admit I do hearing about the good things they do off the field. We have enough bad heaped upon us each night on the news, the good stories help balance it out if that makes sense.

This has been a fun thread, thank you all for the intelligent and respectful responses. There are some very smart and passionate fans on here.

[Tedw9]

I meant to say in my response "But I must admit I do LIKE hearing..."

I must proof read better.

[Mr.3000]

I am with you 100%. I think this is a fun debate, I respect EVERYONES opinion as long as it agrees with mine! Just kidding. I do respect everyones opinion on this topic and every other topic they post about. I love this board and respect all those who post here. So I hope that anyone who I quote or respond to does not take it wrong, to me this is just a fun discussion. You all are good peeps.

And I agree with you about the personal side of players, it has nothing to do with them on the field. But I must admit I do hearing about the good things they do off the field. We have enough bad heaped upon us each night on the news, the good stories help balance it out if that makes sense.

This has been a fun thread, thank you all for the intelligent and respectful responses. There are some very smart and passionate fans on here.

Thank you as well Tedw9!

[markize]

I agree with you on this. If my entire posts were read everyone would see that I've already said I am not a fan of Manny, nor have I ever been. I actually put Manny in the list of players I don't like. That said, he will go down as one of the greatest hitters of the game. Do I wish he played harder? Certainly. He'd then be easier to like. My position in this thread is mainly this - we, as fans and collectors are far too involved in players day to day lives and what they do off the field. Maybe ignorance is bliss. Sometime I wish I didn't know or didn't hear all of the garbage the media spews out about players and how everything a player does is viewed negatively. I say, to each their own. Not ever player is or can be a perfect role model and I don't expect them to be.

Manny may be a clown, but he puts up numbers. Good enough for me. Cal played the game the right way. Great for him. Jeter plays hard. Love watching him play. My all time favorite player, Pete Rose, knew how to play the game. Not many players today do. Eckstein plays hard. Then you have the flip side to those good players. You have Manny not hustling and not wanting to play in Boston anymore. You have pedro shutting himself down midway through a season.

Maybe I just except the good with the bad. Same with baseball as in life. I don't overly upset by an athlete who doesn't affect my daily life.

Just my .02


Note - It's difficult at time to read someones tone when reading written word. Nothing I say is meant to be argumentative. I am merely having a lighthearted discussion with everyone here.

I will assume this post is a follow up to mine. If you are upset with the way I came off, I'm sorry as I wasn't trying to be an a-hole. I never made a single reference to his personal life. I don't care if he clubs baby seals in the off season. I'm just saying there no stats for hustle, and integrity. I really don't feel I was assulting his character by stating the obvious about his work ethic on the field. I never take offense to what people say on the forum. Everyone has a personal opinion, and are entitled to share. I just said I don't care about the facts you regurgitated because I read them earlier in this thread. I also read you don't like manny. I was just asking you to put the stats aside for a second and see that there is more to a ballplayer than numbers-and I'm only talking on the field, like hustle and effort. I'm not trying to defend or assult Manny, just throwing out my opinion. I like to see a player hustle all the time. It's what they get paid to do.

So don't take what I typed the wrong way. I agree with you, it's tough to assume intent when your reading text. I'm just trying to discuss baseball, peacfully! No harm, no foul?

Mark

[skyking26]

It's reported that Manny turned down Dodgers latest 1 year offer of $25 mil. Might be a good time for the Dodgers to sign Adam Dunn to a 1 year deal at a bargain price (which I think he'd do) and be dunn with it.

They'd have a 40 HR, 100 RBI guy at a fraction and stop with the theatrics already. What does everybody think?

[allstarsplus]

It's reported that Manny turned down Dodgers latest 1 year offer of $25 mil. Might be a good time for the Dodgers to sign Adam Dunn to a 1 year deal at a bargain price (which I think he'd do) and be dunn with it.

They'd have a 40 HR, 100 RBI guy at a fraction and stop with the theatrics already. What does everybody think?

The Red Sox won't take Manny back so unless the Angels or Yankees jump in then Manny better take that deal and run with it.

Also I am still personally hoping Adam Dunn comes to Washington!!!!