No player from the recent past can ever be considered among the greatest

[byergo]

Between the ones we already know with 100% certainty that cheated and those that are heavily suspected, there just aren't many you can believe in to be clean. And the potential for cheating with exotic steriods that couldn't have been tested for leaves further doubt.

Pretty sad if you ask me. We just don't have any way to compare these guys to the golden era true greats of the game. This is a tragic era for sports.

[outlaw16511]

Players from different era's cannot be compared with or without performance enhancing drugs in the equation IMHO.

[brianborsch]

I agree. You cannot compare today's players with the early greats as the game conditions were different than what it is now. Examples of this is the level of defensive ability, the field condition, the length of game pitchers pitched, and other stuff as well. Simply a different game, therefore they can't be compared side by side without making adjustments to one or the the either.

[suicide_squeeze]

Cpmparisons of current to past players are always going to have issues as mentioned, dead-ball vs. live balls, 154 game-seasons vs. 162, etc.

The important thing, however, is that the game always be played on a level playing field......fair, with God-given ability to play it.

And historic stats to compare eachother against the greats of the past are all we have to gudge "greatness" against. So it is in the absolute best interest of baseball (and all sports, for that matter) that the fforts be made to keep it real; To keep the playing field level and fair.

Pumping one's body up into a morphysized giant of chemically enhanced muscle mass, with strength and speed that can only be artifically fabricated by unnatural means......is not keeping it fair.

Something needs to be done. Unfortunately, I believe the only way to appraoch this whole issue is to accept the fact that there was a period in the sport where things had run amuck (the "Bud" years, Selig's lecacy), asterisk all the records of that time, move forward by instigating a thorough and strick testing policy (with HEAVY ramifications upon positive tests found to have been using PED's) and just move forward in a collective attempt to bring integrity back to the greatest game there ever was.

Eventually, the "steroid era" best will be elected to the Hall, because they were still the "best" of the time in history at their sport", we accept the fact that their accomplishments were "chemically enhanced", and we go forward.

Is that fair to the players who did not cheat during that era? Of course not, but how do you decipher who did and who didn't? How do you make the "stats right"? You can't, and it's a sad chapter in the history of the game. But the true great ones are recognized eventually by the BBWAA and the verterans comittee. This debate will go on for many years, no doubt. Let's clean it up and move on. Baseball is too important to let this tarnished era ruin the game. It is a link to our past, a past time shared by all of our greatest generations the past almost 200 years. It will always be America's sport, no matter how many "Selig's" there are to allow it to stumble.

Whoever is the next commish......clean it up! And establist a salary cap.

[reed1216]

suicide_squeeze- I totally agree with your synopsis 100%. The problem will be actually cleaning things up. Currently there is no test for HGH and I would bet my house that HGH is every bit, if not more rampant in baseball than steroids have been. That's just HGH. Who really knows what these designer drug companies are brewing up as we surf the internet right now? The "performance enhancing" era will be a huge black eye on baseball. The sad thing is that we're right in the middle of it, with no end in sight....

http://community.webshots.com/user/Reed97

[aeneas01]

fixed games, thrown games, segregation, racism, greenies, cocaine, uppers, small markets vs big markets, shady umpires, etc., etc. - to believe that mlb baseball has a rich tradition of fairness, honesty and a level playing field is to believe in the fairy god mother - steroids is just the latest bump in the road, the latest black eye.

...

[Bondsgloves]

arenas01 - well said!!!

[outlaw16511]

MLB would be better if every player went Doc Ellis and played on LSD.

[xpress34]

Currently there is no test for HGH and I would bet my house that HGH is every bit, if not more rampant in baseball than steroids have been.

Actually HGH can be detected by BLOOD testing, but per the CBA, the ONLY test currently used is still urine testing.

Sadly, the same kinds of things go on in other aspects of our society as well - people always find a way to cheat or beat the system. I served 12 years in the USAF - proudly and clean - but I knew lots of guys who were pot heads still and were looking for away to not get busted on urine tests. They found it by using acid because it can only by detected (at least in the 80's and 90's) by drawing Spinal Fluid. They military would not do that kind of test because if something went wrong in the 'spinal tap' - whether positive for LSD or not - the military would now haev to pay that person for disability benefits for the rest of their natural lives.

My understanding is part of why MLB only does urine testing is because of the chance of a bad/dirty needle in drawing blood or the 'privacy concerns' of other issues that blood tests might determine (i.e. STD's, other diseases, etc.) or being able to be subpoened for Paternity tests, etc.