Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

[beantown]

At this point it doesn't matter how many blue bordered shirts exist. I would like to see some common Red Sox borderless tagged shirts. Does anyone on the forum have any? Produce some common playered blue borderless tagged shirts and you'll sway this entire arguement your way.

I am still looking for common player Red Sox blue borderless jerseys, but came across this one...was Tony Armas considered a "star" in 1980?

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=509&lot=224

Lelands past auctions has some common jerseys of Red Sox players, but no close ups of the tags...

[1986&2004Bosox]

beantown search Yastrzemski on this site look at the 77 Yaz borderless WITH DAVE MEDINA COA. Dave seemed sure last week that lack of blue border was a retail and sided with Lon Lewis, guess Dave M forgot that he wrote a letter on the Yaz.

[flaco1801]

that armas shirt looks brand new

[Moustache Gang]

Flaco,

I currently owned that Armas jersey as I was the high bidder on the Lelands auction. I would say on a scale of:
Brand new 1,
Light use 2,3,4,
Medium use 5,6,7 and
Heavy use 8,9,10

I would rate the jersey a solid 4.

The jersey has some small stains that are mostly in the tail and some on the back near the number. All tags show medium puckering and the back #11 has puckering as well.

Again, as I compare this jersey to my other 50+ McAuliffe A's knits it exhibits light to medium use.

Mark

[beantown]

beantown search Yastrzemski on this site look at the 77 Yaz borderless WITH DAVE MEDINA COA. Dave seemed sure last week that lack of blue border was a retail and sided with Lon Lewis, guess Dave M forgot that he wrote a letter on the Yaz.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ht=Yastrzemski

Interesting...

[Moustache Gang]

Forum Members.

I cannot tell as Lelands did not take a photo of the tagging in the top of the shirt, but they have a 1978 Mike Torrez, McAuliffe grey knit on their website. It is very hard to tell, but if you blow it up it appears to look like a non-blue border tag. Would most of us call Torrez a common player or maybe I do not know my Red Sox players??

Sorry all I collect are A's McAuliffe jerseys, but I would not put Torrez in the same category with Lynn, Rice, Yaz and Fisk.

Mark

[kingjammy24]

b. as only taking a portion of the sample or eliminating the stars serves no purpose.

greatly reducing the chance of fakes seems to be pretty important purpose if the point is to arrive at an accurate conclusion.

if we tossed in all the HOFers, like you suggest, then how would you deal with the substantial risk of fakes contaminating the results? let me guess, you'd just weed the fakes out right? good luck. of course not a single one would slip by you. i can't think of a single individual with a perfect track record but then i guess we've never seen you in action. myself, i think a few might get past me which is why i wouldn't want to chance it. even if 1 or 2 got past me, the results would be skewed and the experiment trashed. i agree that your system would work if some perfect genius manages to catch every single one of the fakes. nice odds. mears tossed some HOFers into the mix in their analysis. this being the same firm that A10'd several horrific bonds shirts so i'm definitely sure that they'd be able to catch each and every fake yaz, fisk, and reggie that came their way right?

and then when your results come out how do you address all the folks like me saying that it's possible that some fake HOFers slipped by you and skewed the results? "oh no, i caught them all. trust me".

or you could just entirely avoid that risk and use only commons. if you evaluated some gallegos, honeycutts, blankenships, bordicks, howitts, and lansfords, i'd say you'd have a very good idea of how the 1990 A's tagged their non-spare shirts. if you tossed in a mcgwire your accuracy wouldn't increase. all you'd do is run the risk of screwing the whole thing up because a fake got past you. plus, those results wouldn't be questioned by others as they would if HOFers had been used.

ultimately, i realize that having this discussion with a guy currently trying to sell a borderless fred lynn is like trying to explain how tasty a pulled pork sandwich is to a pig. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it". a man with skin in the game usually isn't the most objective in the room. on that note, if mears, hypothetically speaking, comes to the eventual conclusion that borderless tags were for retail shirts, what are they going to do about all of the borderless jerseys they've already authenticated? announce a big buyback program? and on that note, how is mears only now investigating this issue after they've already authenticated many mcauliffe shirts? they don't know if mcauliffe made retail shirts and, if they did, how to tell them apart but they went ahead and declared themselves fit to authenticate mcauliffe shirts? isn't that the sort of basic info you learn before you start printing out the LOAs? how's it work at mears..authenticate the shirt first and then learn the difference between pro and retail?

i don't know which way the pendulum is going to swing here. i just hope that whatever conclusion is reached is the right one. i just wanted to put forth the idea that excluding star HOFers would be a wise thing to do in terms of reaching an accurate conclusion. if people can round up a whole slew of common gamers with borderless tags then i think it'd carry a ton of weight. personally, as a collector, i wouldn't put much stock into tag, font, or stitching analysis that focused heavily on HOF jerseys.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

some more from lelands. borderless and bordered:

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=611&lot=696

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=509&lot=224

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=412&lot=549

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=712&lot=153

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=707&lot=123

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=611&lot=640

rudy.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Rudy that's like saying lets evaluate an artist but lets not use their best painting.

Your argument is insane, ask an individual involved in the field of stat's you cant do what you are saying you have to use all known examples.

If you are an authenticator you have to be able to stand behind your work HOF or common player. Why not throw out all the Ruth and Cobb bats when evaluating H&B's?

Stop taking pot shots about me, you no nothing about me.

I have simply pointed out that Mr.Lewis has no evidence, experts have concluded that borderless jerseys are gamers and Mr. Medina himself wrote a letter on a 77 Yaz borderless home jersey that Jim Carvello posted for sale on the board, now Dave M has done a 180.

Finally read the damn post Rudy I said if I was proven wrong I would try and help people with borderless get a refund. This is not about me being right it is about proof and so far not one damn bit of evidence has surrfaced to back Mr.Lewis position.

This has nothing to do with skin in the game as you put it, it has to do with people being able to prove their statements by more than word of mouth or my personal favorite

" you were not around back then but trust me they did it"

well I wasn't around for alot of things but most events have facts to back their happening.

Also you hit the nail on the head if MEARS has already authenticated borderless as gamers the standard has been set.

I would love to hear about the A10 items that have been proven to be wrong do you have examples?