thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

[clinton2828]

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail3.aspx?lotid=21246

thoughts?

[trsent]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/L...px?lotid=21246


thoughts?

Cool looking jersey. I wonder why JSA was needed to authenticate the signature since the MLB database showed that the jersey was autographed at a Derek Jeter private signing in 2002? The MLB hologram is for the autograph on the jersey, so I do not know why they would pay JSA to authenticate it again.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

a cursory glance shows that the bottom seam on the russell tag has been sewn twice over. this is atypical to say the least. the stitching on all 4 sides should be neat, single-line stitches. the bottom of the GFC tag appears to have been resewn.
the top image is GFC's tag. note the 2 lines of stitching on the bottom of the tag.



note the single stitched bottom on these tags:



other than that, i'm not sure why the year tag is faded yet the poly tag is crisp. the russell tag is from 1993-95. 1996 tags had 5 lines of washing instructions.

rudy.

[trsent]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

a cursory glance shows that the bottom seam on the russell tag has been sewn twice over. this is atypical to say the least. the stitching on all 4 sides should be neat, single-line stitches. the bottom of the GFC tag appears to have been resewn.
the top image is GFC's tag. note the 2 lines of stitching on the bottom of the tag.



note the single stitched bottom on these tags:



other than that, i'm not sure why the year tag is faded yet the poly tag is crisp. the russell tag is from 1993-95. 1996 tags had 5 lines of washing instructions.

rudy.

Rudy, interesting with the comment about the 1996 tags having five lines of washing instructions. I see in your images above the 1994 tags have four lines, so how many lines are on the 1995 tags? The Yankees have used jerseys from past years over and over so I figured it may be a 1994 or 1995 jersey.

The bottom tag stitching is interesting. Have you ever seen anything like it before? I assume it is possible they stitched a row twice or the machine did something odd.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

..The Yankees have used jerseys from past years over and over so I figured it may be a 1994 or 1995 jersey.

the jersey has a "1996" tag sewn underneath the mfr tag. so you figured that in 1996, the yankees took a 1994 or 1995 jersey, sliced open the bottom of the mfr tag, took out the old 1994/95 tag, slipped in a new 1996 tag and then resewed it?

when the yankees reused jerseys, the original strip tags remained. you think the yankees were swapping year tags every year on their reused shirts?

anyway, the year doesn't even matter that much. the OP wanted thoughts and my thought is i'd never take a russell jersey with the bottom portion of the mfr tag resewn twice over.

I assume it is possible they stitched a row twice or the machine did something odd.

this one's even better than your suggestion that the yankees change year tags when they reuse jerseys.

anyway to answer your other question; have i seen the bottoms of russell tags cut and resewn before? yes..but oddly only on superstar jerseys. maybe the machines only mess up on high-dollar jerseys?

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

The Yankees have used jerseys from past years over and over so I figured it may be a 1994 or 1995 jersey.

actually the strip tag sewn underneath the mfr tag reads "jeter-96".
so..the yankees took a 1994/95 shirt, ripped out the old strip tag, and put a "jeter-96" tag in there?

its the mfr who sews in those strip tags. so maybe the yankees took an old 1994/95 jersey, shipped it back to russell, russell took the old tag out, put a new one in, and then shipped it back to the yankees?

anyway, the armband is sewn too low as well. if you look at photos of the space between the armband and the end of the sleeve, there's enough empty space to fit another armband AND have room left over. the GFC jersey barely has enough space left to fit another armband.



rudy.

[trsent]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Rudy, I didn't say you were wrong. I was just thinking of reasons for why it could have been legitimately used against the thoughts that someone had this jersey remade from another jersey.

Thanks for the replies. As usual, your thought process is amazing!

[trsent]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

actually the strip tag sewn underneath the mfr tag reads "jeter-96".
so..the yankees took a 1994/95 shirt, ripped out the old strip tag, and put a "jeter-96" tag in there?

its the mfr who sews in those strip tags. so maybe the yankees took an old 1994/95 jersey, shipped it back to russell, russell took the old tag out, put a new one in, and then shipped it back to the yankees?

rudy.

Rudy, just curious - How do you know the Manufacture sews in strip tags and not a local tailor? I was always under the impression that strip tags were added locally by the team and not by the manufacture.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Rudy, just curious - How do you know the Manufacture sews in strip tags and not a local tailor? I was always under the impression that strip tags were added locally by the team and not by the manufacture.

some strip tags were added by the mfr, some locally. depends on the team, year, and mfr.

if you're looking at an early 90s era strip tag with a computer, ink print out on a russell jersey, then it was sewn in by russell.

1) the tags are sewn underneath the mfr tag with a single stitch line over top. if this was done after-the-fact by a local shop, they'd have to tear out the bottom, insert the tag, and resew it. the fact that its sewn under/inside the mfr tag is the first clue it's done by the mfr.

2) russell used the same strip tag on seen on this "96 jeter" on jerseys for many other teams during that era. same material tag, same font for the text. it's a standard russell strip tag for the era. look:


4 different teams yet all have the same style of strip tag, same font. same font as is seen on the "96 jeter". same strip tag that russell used for many teams, for many years. if it were done locally, how would several different teams all magically end up with exactly the same font and exactly the same material of tag? some local shop in cleveland just happened to pick the same font as a local shop in chicago and texas and detroit? if it were all done locally, then you'd see a several different styles of strip tags. but you don't. you see 1 style. standard russell strip tags. why are they standard? because they were all put it at the same factory by the same mfr. that's why they all look exactly the same. it's not a coincidence.

plus i've seen a russell order sheet from the mid-90s and it showed the team specifying what information they wanted russell to put on the strip tag.

rudy.

[trsent]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

some strip tags were added by the mfr, some locally. depends on the team, year, and mfr.

if you're looking at an early 90s era strip tag with a computer, ink print out on a russell jersey, then it was sewn in by russell.

1) the tags are sewn underneath the mfr tag with a single stitch line over top. if this was done after-the-fact by a local shop, they'd have to tear out the bottom, insert the tag, and resew it. the fact that its sewn under/inside the mfr tag is the first clue it's done by the mfr.

2) russell used the same strip tag on seen on this "96 jeter" on jerseys for many other teams during that era. same material tag, same font for the text. it's a standard russell strip tag for the era. look:


4 different teams yet all have the same style of strip tag, same font. same font as is seen on the "96 jeter". same strip tag that russell used for many teams, for many years. if it were done locally, how would several different teams all magically end up with exactly the same font and exactly the same material of tag? some local shop in cleveland just happened to pick the same font as a local shop in chicago and texas and detroit? if it were all done locally, then you'd see a several different styles of strip tags. but you don't. you see 1 style. standard russell strip tags. why are they standard? because they were all put it at the same factory by the same mfr. that's why they all look exactly the same. it's not a coincidence.

plus i've seen a russell order sheet from the mid-90s and it showed the team specifying what information they wanted russell to put on the strip tag.

rudy.

Cool beans.

I never thought twice about it. Great information.

[trsent]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Rudy, I just received the following email from a jersey expert friend of mine:

"It is extremely common for a 1996 or even 1997 jersey to have a 1993 to 1995 Russell manufacturers tag. Especially when it comes to size 46 or 50 jerseys. I have personally seen this dozens of times on common jerseys. I would assume the reason it is more common on these 2 size jerseys is because they are less used tags. Since size 44,48,52 are also retail sizes they are used more commonly and Russell would have ran out of the faster, but size 46 or 50 are only team issue sizes and used less often they were carried over to 1996 and even 1997."

2nd Email:

"Notice the 1998 Tigers tag shown by Rudy, it is a 1993-1995 Russell manufacturers tag, 4 lines."

[clinton2828]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

rudy,
amazing work once again. i was thinking about spending alot of money to get the jersey but personally think too many questions remain.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Rudy, I just received the following email from a jersey expert friend of mine:

"It is extremely common for a 1996 or even 1997 jersey to have a 1993 to 1995 Russell manufacturers tag. Especially when it comes to size 46 or 50 jerseys. I have personally seen this dozens of times on common jerseys. I would assume the reason it is more common on these 2 size jerseys is because they are less used tags. Since size 44,48,52 are also retail sizes they are used more commonly and Russell would have ran out of the faster, but size 46 or 50 are only team issue sizes and used less often they were carried over to 1996 and even 1997."

this hasn't been my experience in the least. let's see some photos posted of a good amount of 96 and 97 commons showing 93-95 tags. besides, i don't even have that much of an issue with the tag per se. the fact that bottom has been resewn is the big issue.

"Notice the 1998 Tigers tag shown by Rudy, it is a 1993-1995 Russell manufacturers tag, 4 lines."

what an expert. i love it. i didn't post a 1998 tigers tag. i posted a 1994 tigers tag. you know what your expert friend did joel? they read the last number on the tag - 98 - and thought it was the year instead of the inventory number. expert: what's the first number on the tag? 94 right? that's the year. the last number on a tigers tag is always the inventory number. here's another 1994 tigers tag. i'm guessing your expert thinks it's from 1960 right?



joel why do you listen to people like this?

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.



all of the photos of 1996 yankees i've seen show the armband sewn high enough to be able to easily accomodate another armband sewn below. in other words, the remaining space is greater than the width of the armband.

in GFC's 1996 jeter, the remaining space isn't even enough to accomodate a second armband.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.



rudy.