Question For Everyone On Here.........

[suicide_squeeze]

A LOT of good posts here...

suave1477,

Off the top of my head, I clearly remember a Ken Griffey Jr. "game used jersey" sold a few years back on GF. I can probably find the item in one of their old catelogs fairly easy....let me know if you want me to take a picture of the auction and post it here....I promise I will if you want to see it.

It was (supposedly) from 1997, a full sleeved white home jersey. There was a short description, stating all the obvious: NOB on back, "proper tagging", the numbers on the back, etc. The usual GF boring-you-to-sleep description. I believe it stated at the end "Completely original and unaltered....".

What was missing, however, was any factual info that these jerseys were only used in the second half of the season, as the basic style of the Seattle Mariners jerseys that particular year was the "vest".

Also, just a tad of a minor oversight: There was no Jackie Robinson 50-year Anniversary patch on the sleeve......worn by every Major League Team to honor the 50 Year mark the color barrier was broken in MLB.

There was no patch.....no patch removal remnants (threads, stitch holes, shadowing or discoloration, etc. It was a no-brainer that that jersey was NOT worn by Griffey during that season. Period.

Yet they sold it....to some poor guy who didn't KNOW any better....some poor collector who, inspired by his love for a player, put his good hard-earned cash on this piece of retail garb because he based his decision to bid soundly on the expectation that this "professional auction house" had the knowledge and expertise to verify the authenticity of this item. Sadly, all this poor guy needed was some basic knowledge of the team, MLB's "patches" and the years they were donned, and the tip that GF is KNOWN for selling lots of items with MORE than questionable heritage like this one.

If you guys have no problem with the big boys continuing down this road simply becuse they "sell some great items" along the way....then I would say you are adding to the problem in the hobby. It's unaccetable. As stated in another thread, why do you think they don't hire the services of a guy like aeneus (did I spell that wrong?? ) or rudy or ANYONE else (kyle hess comes to mind)?

Because folks......they can't make $800-$1,000 of pure profit they do on these retail pieces being sold as gamers if they can't list em!

DO-YOUR-HOMEWORK! That cannot be emphasized enough....It's GREAT advice people, and worth it's time and effort.

[suicide_squeeze]

I was so rushed to get this in (got to go to bed...I get up EARLY) that I forgot one MAJORLY important fact.....

The REASON I was watchiong that Griffey jersey was because I have always been a fan, and 1997 was the year he won his ONLY AL MVP award.

Not ONE word about that in the description.

You're going to be selling a jersey of a superstar from his MVP season, and not add that TANTALIZING PIECE OF INFO in the facts???

Hmmmmm..............nice. An oversight you say? C'mon.

I believe the reason they didn't was because they knew the piece was bogus, and just slipped it through the cracks of the catalog to make the bank, without trying to draw any attention to the fact there was NO WAY it was real.

But that's just my opinion.....

Use the grey matter people....protect yourselves....DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
The auction houses will NOT do it for you.

[suave1477]

I was so rushed to get this in (got to go to bed...I get up EARLY) that I forgot one MAJORLY important fact.....

The REASON I was watchiong that Griffey jersey was because I have always been a fan, and 1997 was the year he won his ONLY AL MVP award.

Not ONE word about that in the description.

You're going to be selling a jersey of a superstar from his MVP season, and not add that TANTALIZING PIECE OF INFO in the facts???

Hmmmmm..............nice. An oversight you say? C'mon.

I believe the reason they didn't was because they knew the piece was bogus, and just slipped it through the cracks of the catalog to make the bank, without trying to draw any attention to the fact there was NO WAY it was real.

But that's just my opinion.....

Use the grey matter people....protect yourselves....DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
The auction houses will NOT do it for you.

Suicide all your statements are a 100% true I agree those are major over sights and maybe your right that they knew it wasn't the real thing and tried to push it through knowing it wasn't real.

But saying us as collectors are saying its ok to let things be over seen because there are other good items that come aling with those auctions which in turn worsens the hobby is wrong.

No one here has said it is ok!!

All we are saying is that no one is perfect and it seems you guys forget that some times.

They have an estimated of 850 items up for auction. If 5,10 or even 20 of them is questionable I am nto saying it is ok and yes they should be held accountable. But there is or close too 830 items that are legit. Which percentage wise means less then 5% is bogus.

I REPEAT YES THEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE NOT A REPUTABLE SOURCE BECAUSE ONE ITEM FELL THROUGH THE CRACKS

BUT REMEMBER NO ONE IS PERFECT

THERE IS NO SUCH PERSON OR COMPANY THAT IS A 100% PERFECT.

(Sorry both teams I have to make another car analogy its all i can think of at this tim ein the morning lol lol)

Car Dealerships sell dozens of cars a day some cars may comes with problems.
Is the dealership responsible to take care of the problems after you brought it home and found out something is wrong. Of course!!
Does it make them a not reputable dealership NO it doesn't
As long as you can bring your car back and have the problem fixed everything is ok.
To the point of the U.S. Lemon Law which says in a matter of speaking that any delaership is actually allowed to sell you a car with problems as long as the problems can be fixed by the dealership or reimburse you for the problems that need to be fixed by another mechanic and up to 3 major problems before the dealership is required to take the car back.
(I know this from expeirince with buying a car in New York)

So my point is I am not saying it is ok but as long as the Auction house any auction house takes responsibility for a problem then I personally cannot say they are not reputable.

And as proven here Grey Flannel seems to try to do the right thing by pulling items if it is brought to there attention. Just as when you buy a car and find a problem down the road you point out to them what is broken and the delaership fixes it

[kingjammy24]

the amount of bogus items found in an auction is not the same as the number of bogus items actually in an auction. you're assuming that every single item is caught.

keep in mind that posters on here are doing all of their work via photos alone. there's a ton of things you can't see via the GFC photos. how many more would be found if these items were examined in person? you could easily find hundreds more. your 5% rate could easily balloon up to an unacceptable rate.

as for the car/lemon law analogy where the dealer is required to fix the car after it's sold and eventually may even be required to take the car back, good luck getting GFC to refund a shirt after you've bought it. did you miss this little blurb?" "ALL LOTS ARE SOLD AS IS. ALL SALES ARE FINAL. NO RETURNS". go ahead and test GFC's "lemon law" jason; buy the jeter jersey and a week later tell them the bottom of the russell tag is resewn and you want a refund. see how much of an effort they'll make to fix your problem. after all, it is a "premier lot" so i'm sure they'll take good care of you.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

They have an estimated of 850 items up for auction. If 5,10 or even 20 of them is questionable I am nto saying it is ok and yes they should be held accountable. But there is or close too 830 items that are legit. Which percentage wise means less then 5% is bogus.

troy of mears uses the same line. look, the number of times you've been caught is not the same thing as the number of times you've made an error. there are tons of errors that aren't caught.

"BUT REMEMBER NO ONE IS PERFECT"

noone expects perfection. people expect a decent job.

rudy.

[suave1477]

the amount of bogus items found in an auction is not the same as the number of bogus items actually in an auction. you're assuming that every single item is caught.

keep in mind that posters on here are doing all of their work via photos alone. there's a ton of things you can't see via the GFC photos. how many more would be found if these items were examined in person? you could easily find hundreds more. your 5% rate could easily balloon up to an unacceptable rate.

as for the car/lemon law analogy where the dealer is required to fix the car after it's sold and eventually may even be required to take the car back, good luck getting GFC to refund a shirt after you've bought it. did you miss this little blurb?" "ALL LOTS ARE SOLD AS IS. ALL SALES ARE FINAL. NO RETURNS". go ahead and test GFC's "lemon law" jason; buy the jeter jersey and a week later tell them the bottom of the russell tag is resewn and you want a refund. see how much of an effort they'll make to fix your problem. after all, it is a "premier lot" so i'm sure they'll take good care of you.

rudy.

Rudy no I never said I assumed everything was caught and yes your correct things are prrobably still slipping through and as I have said repeatedly yes they should be held accountable.

All I am saying is they do make some effort to right some wrongs. Whether it is minimal effort or maximum effort, it is some effort which is more then you can say for some other auction houses.

As far as my car analogy I was dead on right about it. In a previous post of mine on this thread I did mention when yes I did win an item from them and after recieving it I was not comfortable with it and they did refund my money.
So my analogy stands as far as my experieince with them!!

[nyjetsfan14]

noone expects perfection. people expect a decent job.

Better yet people expect an honest and sincere effort in performance of one's job and reaching/meeting high standards. To communicate, articulate, and deal with potential customers in good faith while expertly and professionally providing the service they are handsomely paid to do, which is in large part to authenticate. In many instances it takes very little effort/research from forum members (who by the way have other unrelated jobs and do this in their free time) to find blatant and obvious discrepencies with lots. To label oneself as the premeir anything would require premeir effort and premeir results. Does this appear to be premier effort and premier results? Does it seem as if we are seeing good faith interaction? These are simply rhetorical questions that each can answer on their own. I think the positive aspect of this topic is just how valuable and empowering this forum and some of the very valuable members can be, thanks to you all for making me more informed and aware. Happy collecting...

[suicide_squeeze]

suave....

If I buy a new Corvette today, and it comes apart on me.....I now have the warranty backed by the good faith of our United States Government. No joke. Obama said it just a few days ago.

If I buy an item from GF and I am not comfortable with it because I can't find ANY supporting evidence that it's real (in other words, it being what they represented it to be), I am fairly confident 'ol Rick Russek will tell me to pound sand, citing the "ALL SALES ARE FINAL" print on every one of their catalogs.

And if I took it one step further, and walked into their corporate office to argue....I'm sure I would be escorted out the door by a big guy named "Vinnie"......

What they have going on there is an organized farce, scateered with some real nice authentic items to appear like it's all "good".

I truly honestly think you'd be SHOCKED to know the real percentage of items in their auctions that are truly NON-authentic. My guess is over 30%, more likely approaching 40%. For fun, the next time I have a couple of hours to burn, I'll pick through one of their older catalogs and count the items I believe have no business being identified as what they are being represented as.....and see what percentage that is out of the whole auction.

It would be very difficult, but that's the rub. Don't you see?

If we, who REALLY do our homework, are finding so many items to be bad.......how in the WORLD do you expect the many investors/collectors who don't even KNOW about this site, or have the experience and knowledge to persue the ultimate truth about the items offered in these auctions, to figure it out?

They can't.

And that why it's so important for the auction houses to take the time and do their due diligence BEFORE offering these pieces for auction. BECAUSE MANY OF THE PEOPLE PLACING THEIR MONEY ON THEM HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO GO BY BUT THE REPUTATION OF THE AUCTION HOUSE AND THEIR SO-CALLED EXPERTS.

We should come down hard on their "mistakes". No, it's not reasonable to "expect" perfection. But it's also not reasonable to have to constantly worry about the fact that you just bought something that's bad, and the money is unrecoverable.

And another sad truth: You know why most collectors who buy a bad item don't raise hell, fight, cause a scene, come on here and show pictures, threaten the auction house, etc.???.....Because it's easier to just dump the garbage to some OTHER poor collector whocan be duped just as YOU were, and it's over. But if you make a big deal out of it, you'll NEVER get your money back. So the garbage goes ROUND, and round, and round out there. It's a perpetual market of garbage, changing hands as "new discoveries" are made by the collector who tripped upon knowledge previously unknown by him that he has boughten a bad item. Off to ebay!!

It's sad.

But these auctions houses like GF aren't even keeping up with what I would refer to as a "professional level of competence" in evaluating many of the items they auction off. That's basically the whole reason this site exists.

As I have said before, they know what they are doing. They are "making money", and slipping a LOT of garbage through in the process. They aren't honest mistakes. They happen too often to be, and repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Without a universal governing agency of some kind to monitor this "industry".....we only have ourselves to help. And there is a good group of people here to come to for help. Use it! Don't put your faith in an auction house.....you'll get burned sooner or later.

[kingjammy24]

"I never said I assumed everything was caught"

here's what you said:

"They have an estimated of 850 items up for auction. If 5,10 or even 20 of them is questionable I am nto saying it is ok and yes they should be held accountable. But there is or close too 830 items that are legit. Which percentage wise means less then 5% is bogus."

you said that if 20 out of 850 are questionable then that "means less than 5% are bogus". it does not mean less than 5% are bogus. it has no bearing on how many are bogus. it simply means less than 5% have been caught. that's all.

"All I am saying is they do make some effort to right some wrongs. Whether it is minimal effort or maximum effort, it is some effort which is more then you can say for some other auction houses."

hooray for minimal effort. let's pay a hefty buyer's premium for "minimal effort".

"As far as my car analogy I was dead on right about it. In a previous post of mine on this thread I did mention when yes I did win an item from them and after recieving it I was not comfortable with it and they did refund my money. So my analogy stands as far as my experieince with them!!"

your analogy completely misses the mark and i'll tell you why; the lemon law is a formal, legal, published policy. it's not something that dealers apply if they feel like it. it applies to ALL customers. your experience with GFC was an anomaly; an rare exception to the rule that went completely against their formal policy. who knows why richie did it? maybe the birds were singing that day. maybe he just had a nice big piece of gabbagool and was happy. the fact is your experience, unlike the lemon law for dealers, is not GFC's official policy. unlike the lemon law which applies to ALL buyers, your single experience with GFC does not apply to all of their customers. your experience is not GFC's policy. poor old john cherpock had to take them to court:
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...ots_of_gr.html

i can only go by GFC's stated, published policy not whatever rare exceptions to the rule they make for some people but not for others. if GFC's policy is to give refunds then they should publish that and not clearly state that "all items sold as is, all sales final, no returns".

rudy.

[lund6771]

They have an estimated of 850 items up for auction. If 5,10 or even 20 of them is questionable I am nto saying it is ok and yes they should be held accountable. But there is or close too 830 items that are legit. Which percentage wise means less then 5% is bogus.

I REPEAT YES THEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE NOT A REPUTABLE SOURCE BECAUSE ONE ITEM FELL THROUGH THE CRACKS

BUT REMEMBER NO ONE IS PERFECT

THERE IS NO SUCH PERSON OR COMPANY THAT IS A 100% PERFECT.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the ACTUAL figure is over 50%....

some authenticators have been around a long time and have handled many great pieces....authentications are based on experiences and a database....

Roger Gibson consigned a large lot of game used Houston Oilers jerseys and they were all tagged in the collar....a few months later, GF is now selling a Moon that is tagged in the tail?...and no year tag?...there is no way that you can call this slipping through the cracks

my opinion is that a company like GF needs to show a big auction...so they take in and sell a lot of this trash to fill space....the 97 Grifey is perfect example...