Yankees 2009

[yanks12025]

Re: Yankees 2009

To you guys what is the definition of buying players. Becuase if you look at the Yankees roster to the Rays roster, the yankees have MORE home-grown players then them.

[stkmtimo]

Re: Yankees 2009

Then take a look at what's in the pitching pipeline for the Orioles vs the Yankee$. Then compare the two teams outfields. Then see if you can tell me with a straight face that you'd rather be the Yankee$ than the Orioles...in any respect other than revenues.

Sure, I'll take a look at the pitching pipelines. The Yankees have Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Andrew Brackman, Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances. I would compare Hughes favorably with Matusz/Arrieta in the Orioles system and say that there is more pitching depth in the Yankees' farm system than in the Orioles'.

Comparing the outfields? Sure, the Orioles have a very talented and young outfield but that really doesn't mean all that much - you would do a lot better to compare the offensive lineup as a whole. Once A-Rod is back, there's no contest as to which team will have the better offense.

I can tell you with a straight face that I would rather be the Yankees than the Orioles. At least George Steinbrenner is willing to put up the money to create a successful team. There's plenty of baseball left to be played. We'll see who's there in the end.

Tim

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

Sure, I'll take a look at the pitching pipelines. The Yankees have Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Andrew Brackman, Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances. I would compare Hughes favorably with Matusz/Arrieta in the Orioles system and say that there is more pitching depth in the Yankees' farm system than in the Orioles'.

Comparing the outfields? Sure, the Orioles have a very talented and young outfield but that really doesn't mean all that much - you would do a lot better to compare the offensive lineup as a whole. Once A-Rod is back, there's no contest as to which team will have the better offense.

I can tell you with a straight face that I would rather be the Yankees than the Orioles. At least George Steinbrenner is willing to put up the money to create a successful team. There's plenty of baseball left to be played. We'll see who's there in the end.

Tim

But Tim, that is the point and the whole problem. With the money you guys are able to spend you should be there in the end every single year. It is ridiculous that anybody should be able to compete with the Yankees given the structure that they have to work with. Again, I don't blame the Yankees, if you can get away with it then who wouldn't. If the Yankees did not throw all that money they are making back into the team, wouldn't all the Yankee fans come unglued if it was simply lining Stinebrenners pockets every year. The point is, the system is broken and until it gets fixed this arguement will go on and on.

The Yankees are really in a no win situation. Spend all the money you can as they do and the expectation is that that should and will win every year. Anything less than a World Series title is a failure. Yet people who are reasonable and see this stupidity for what it is will continue to lambast MLB for a flawed and failed system as should anyone even Yankee fans. I have said this before, If my favorite team the Lakers could outspend the entire league and balloon their payroll to $200 million when everyone else is spending 65 million, boy wouldn't I be real proud if they could field the NBA all-star team at every position and beat the holy crap out of teams night in and night out. Yipee, what an accomplishment. Kind of like the Dream Team became, the expectation is that you demolish everyone and anything less is complete failure. The opposite end of the spectrum is that they line their pockets with all that cash and piss off the fan base instead of dumping the money back into the team. Given Cashman and the Yankee braintrusts inability to win with a $200 million payroll god forbid they would have to compete with $75 million. Would this team even win 65 games consistently?

I am not a fan of some of these teams so I don't have a dog in the fight, but given the current payroll situation in MLB, will we ever see the Royals, Brewers, Orioles, Blue Jays, Mariners, Pirates, Reds, and I am sure I am missing a few teams in the mix consistenly or even making the playoffs again ever??? Yeah, the Rays did it last year but I am interested in seeing a five year window. My guess is this team is either one and done or maybe two years and that is about it. Long term, they don't stand a chance against the Yankees and Red Sox who just keep reloading year after year after year. That is why this system is flawed garbage.

[yanks12025]

Re: Yankees 2009

Well the yankees have to sign players because they can't get number one draft picks every year like the Rays did(need to come in last many years). Thats why they were able to put a good team out there.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Yankees 2009

yanks maybe you should take a look at some of the ball players taken later in the draft. they were still getting picks in the first round just not as early. i would say that there have been just as many first round flops as there has been late round super stars.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

Sure, I'll take a look at the pitching pipelines. The Yankees have Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Andrew Brackman, Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances. I would compare Hughes favorably with Matusz/Arrieta in the Orioles system and say that there is more pitching depth in the Yankees' farm system than in the Orioles'.

Comparing the outfields? Sure, the Orioles have a very talented and young outfield but that really doesn't mean all that much - you would do a lot better to compare the offensive lineup as a whole. Once A-Rod is back, there's no contest as to which team will have the better offense.

I can tell you with a straight face that I would rather be the Yankees than the Orioles. At least George Steinbrenner is willing to put up the money to create a successful team. There's plenty of baseball left to be played. We'll see who's there in the end.

Tim

BTW, I know this is anything of an exact science by of the Baseball America top 100 rated prospects, the Orioles have three in the top 25 Wieters #1, Tillman #22, Matusz #25, Arrieta #67. The Yankees only Pitcher on the entire list is Brackman at #92. I think the baseball masses are beginning to quickly lose their patience with Kennedy and Hughes. Like I said earlier, would I as a Yankee fan rather have had Santana a couple of years back with instant lights out 18 - 20 wins or the possibility that either Hughes or Kennedy turns into something down the road. I would have made that trade in a heartbeat. As of right now, when it comes to pitching, I would take the Orioles minor leaguers easily given the inability of Hughes and Kennedy to get anybody out at the major league level. The other two guys on the Yankee list. I am sure their high school coach remembers their name the rest of America, not so sure.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

Well the yankees have to sign players because they can't get number one draft picks every year like the Rays did(need to come in last many years). Thats why they were able to put a good team out there.

Fair enough but that guarentees nothing. I am an Orioles fan and for twenty years they would constantly have one of the top ten draft picks and due to absolutely incompetent scouting, drafting, ownership take your pick they keep missing the boat every single year. Their minor league system was an abject disaster until about three or four years ago and that was putting it mildly.

[yanks12025]

Re: Yankees 2009

I believe you missed acouple of the yankees top prospects that should be on that list, Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

I believe you missed acouple of the yankees top prospects that should be on that list, Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero.

You bet I sure did, Jackson is #36 & Montero #38. Aside from Wieters, I was mainly focusing on pitching however. Don't worry though, when it becomes apparent that one of the fab five don't work out, the Yanks will package a couple of these guys and trade them away if and this is a big IF they can find another really stupid contract say like the old Kevin Brown deal they took on to pick up. Quick everyone lets see what is the worst current deal out there for a MLB pitcher that the Yankees could pick up in a trade. Conditions they would be looking for would be a pitcher who is,
1. Constantly on the DL
2. A cancer in the clubhouse.
3. 40 years old or preferably 44 or above.
4. Has a salary of 18 million a year or above.
5. Has not won consistenly at the MLB level in at least five seasons.

Please submit all vialbe candidates to the attention of Brian Cashman immediately.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Yankees 2009

The Yankees problems were very predictable....

You could feel the massive tension before the year even started. The expectations from the "stupid money" signings were bound to set these guys on their ears. Too much pressure does not lead to victories.

Tex was never a clutch player, so I don't know how throwing a dung-heap of money in his lap was supposed to change that. But hey, if you're team is down by, say 5 runs, and there is one guy on and Tex is up......Wow, he can sure send a homer deep into the seats alright....

And C.C reminded me of a good natured ball player, with Babe Ruth like tendancies....although far from his character and talent. Bath could hit a ball a country mile...it was exciting to watch this pitcher get his turn to bat.

So what does he do? He sells himself out to the highest paying AMERICAN LEAGUE team and loses many years of at-bats which would have surely produced a few all-time video clips to "wow!" the fans, all the while taking a lot of fun out of the game for himself. Couple that with the fact he's in the most butt-puckering uptight mess of an environment that "expects" wins, it's not condusive to promoting a winning cohesive clubhouse.

In short, the Yankees have a bunch of problems that sheer talent will overcome now and then, but in the end they fall short because this is not a team that will gel. A-Rod's return will lift them, but in the end, I believe this team will be the back-breaker in overpaid salaries, and it all starts to retreat from here. Having those empty seats behind home plate is sending a loud and clear message to the Steinbrenners. Financially, they never cared before. They do now.

Now they'll have no choice but to go back to the roots of baseball and develope within.


By the way.......HOW 'BOUT THOSE DODGERS!!!

[stkmtimo]

Re: Yankees 2009

BTW, I know this is anything of an exact science by of the Baseball America top 100 rated prospects, the Orioles have three in the top 25 Wieters #1, Tillman #22, Matusz #25, Arrieta #67. The Yankees only Pitcher on the entire list is Brackman at #92. I think the baseball masses are beginning to quickly lose their patience with Kennedy and Hughes. Like I said earlier, would I as a Yankee fan rather have had Santana a couple of years back with instant lights out 18 - 20 wins or the possibility that either Hughes or Kennedy turns into something down the road. I would have made that trade in a heartbeat. As of right now, when it comes to pitching, I would take the Orioles minor leaguers easily given the inability of Hughes and Kennedy to get anybody out at the major league level. The other two guys on the Yankee list. I am sure their high school coach remembers their name the rest of America, not so sure.

I will give you Kennedy, though he has been lights out again thus far in the minors. We'll see if his mechanical adjustments help should he return to the Majors. However, there is NO way that the top brass has lost patience with Hughes. He is a stud pitcher and a future ace. It's unbelievable that you could say that Hughes was unable to get anyone out at the Major League level - in 2006 as a 19 year old, Hughes took 2 no hitters into the 6th and 8th innings before being injured in his second no hit bid. Last year he was also injured and therefore it's not really fair to use those numbers.

I'm not trying to downplay the Orioles' system, but I don't think it's fair to say that Yankees' cupboard is bare either, particularly since Hughes, Kennedy and Joba no longer qualify for the BA lists yet are all still "prospects" per say. I know that BA rankings don't correspond to Major League success but they do make for more ease in comparisons. By putting your Oriole prospects in the discussions, you have to mention the Yankees' Austin Jackson at #36 and Jesus Montero at #38, along with Andrew Brackman. Montero may have the best shot to be one of the Latin American position players to make an impact at the Major League level since he's likely Posada's successor should he stay at catcher.

Tim

[yanks12025]

Re: Yankees 2009

suicide,
One other team made a offer to CC and it was no where near what he wanted.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

I will give you Kennedy, though he has been lights out again thus far in the minors. We'll see if his mechanical adjustments help should he return to the Majors. However, there is NO way that the top brass has lost patience with Hughes. He is a stud pitcher and a future ace. It's unbelievable that you could say that Hughes was unable to get anyone out at the Major League level - in 2006 as a 19 year old, Hughes took 2 no hitters into the 6th and 8th innings before being injured in his second no hit bid. Last year he was also injured and therefore it's not really fair to use those numbers.

I'm not trying to downplay the Orioles' system, but I don't think it's fair to say that Yankees' cupboard is bare either, particularly since Hughes, Kennedy and Joba no longer qualify for the BA lists yet are all still "prospects" per say. I know that BA rankings don't correspond to Major League success but they do make for more ease in comparisons. By putting your Oriole prospects in the discussions, you have to mention the Yankees' Austin Jackson at #36 and Jesus Montero at #38, along with Andrew Brackman. Montero may have the best shot to be one of the Latin American position players to make an impact at the Major League level since he's likely Posada's successor should he stay at catcher.

Tim

Tim, the piont is, that the Yankees weakness has been pitching depth the last ten years. That is why they are not consistently winning. Great pitching always beats great hitting. While their lineup has been loaded for the last 15 years, their pitching has been shaky at best. If I could have gotten Santana for Hughes and Kennedy I would have made that deal in a minute. Who cares about possible future success. How many minor league stars end up being major league busts. If I had a chance to pick up one of the top five pitchers in baseball two years ago for future prospects I would have pulled that trigger. Fans do not care about tomorrow they want results today. This is particularly true in New York. Even if Hughes and some of these other guys develop you are going to have a major problem in about two or three years when virtually every position player you have is well past their prime. Posada, Jeter, Matsui, AROD, Damon, are all aging quickly. You play to win now not tomorrow.

[3arod13]

Re: Yankees 2009

Won't be long before they're saying....HE'S BAAACCKK!
Yankees 3B Alex Rodriguez (right hip surgery) took 75 swings and hit several long homers during his third consecutive day of batting practice in Florida. Rodriguez, expected to rejoin the team by May 15, also took grounders on the infield dirt for the first time and increased the intensity of his running program. …

[markize]

Re: Yankees 2009

Tim, the piont is, that the Yankees weakness has been pitching depth the last ten years. That is why they are not consistently winning. Great pitching always beats great hitting. While their lineup has been loaded for the last 15 years, their pitching has been shaky at best. If I could have gotten Santana for Hughes and Kennedy I would have made that deal in a minute. Who cares about possible future success. How many minor league stars end up being major league busts. If I had a chance to pick up one of the top five pitchers in baseball two years ago for future prospects I would have pulled that trigger. Fans do not care about tomorrow they want results today. This is particularly true in New York. Even if Hughes and some of these other guys develop you are going to have a major problem in about two or three years when virtually every position player you have is well past their prime. Posada, Jeter, Matsui, AROD, Damon, are all aging quickly. You play to win now not tomorrow.

brett,

i was with you the whole way till you got to the final sentence hi-lighted in bold and then you crapped all over your own points. why bother talking about prospects, and farm systems, and ragging on what the Yankees pay their players? the point of a farm system is to develop players for TOMORROW, right? the Yankees are trying to win TODAY, by paying for players they feel can help them NOW. I agree Wieters looks to be a great player of the FUTURE, but he hasnt played a single game yet, so how is he helping NOW?

mark