Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

[RKO18]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

I'm actually just getting into the whole game used memorabilia thing, I've been collecting cards for years. I just wanted to follow up on what a couple people said earlier about jerseys from different years/teams...

It is a VERY common thing to put jerseys in the card that weren't worn from a particular season or were worn by the player on a previous team. Also, just because it says "1976" on the front of the card, does NOT mean that the jersey was used during the 1976 season, it's just saying that for the "Pro Bowl Squad" subset purposes.

As you've said, it's really going to be important what the card says on the back, but from my experience they are usually very non-descript and give no real details about anything important. Most of the time it just says something like "this jersey was worn by player x in an official nfl pro bowl game".

So, I'd be very interested to find out what happens with this, so keep this thread updated. Like I said before, I'm really into cards and this whole memorabilia thing (at least full size pieces lol) is all new to me, so it's very interesting.

You make a very valid point. The other Pro Bowl jersey cards in the set use the logo of the specific Pro Bowl game for which the jersey is being used. I'm guessing since their might not have been an official logo for the Pro Bowl in those days, they used the NFC logo and the year of 1976.

For arguments sake though, lets say this is jersey from the 1971 Pro Bowl, in my opinion, they should not put the year of 1976 anywhere on the card. It creates a cause for mass confusion. It will be one thing if the back of the card states the exact game it was used in but if it just states generically that it was used in an official NFL game or in an official Pro Bowl game, than there is an issue in my opinion.

With a card such as this, they must be as accurate and detailed as they can be in my opinion although I certainly see where you are coming from.

[RKO18]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

http://www.freewebs.com/jdworley/05gridirongearpb.htm

Wow, that was most interesting. None of the Tarkenton cards there are the exact one but they are clearly the same style. Yet without being able to read the back, it's still a bit of a mystery.

I'm more confused with the Jamal Lewis cards in the set. Some of them look to be from the same Pro Bowl as featured within the picture of him on the card while the others are clearly from one of his Ravens jerseys.

I would hope that the back of the card details the difference. Still, it wouldn't appear to be an issue with the Tarkenton card because the style inserted would have had to have been from a Pro Bowl jersey since it wouldn't match one of his Vikings or Giants jerseys.

[skinsfan0521]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

I think that the reason they put 1976 on the card is to give the impression that it's from his Pro Bowl from his MVP season. I don't own, nor have ever seen, one of these cards from this set in person, but I think that maybe about 10 - 20 of my hundreds of game used cards give actual dates for the game that the pieces were used. They're always extremely vague and give no details.

I will admit though, that after reading a thousand or so posts on this forum about all the details that game used memorabilia collectors go into for their items, I can see where this becomes an issue on this board. Buuuut, normally there isn't any details given and to be honest, I've never heard any card collectors complain (including myself). Now after reading this forum for a month or so, I wish there were TONS of details, but it never even occured to me before to care what game it was from or what season or to ever try to photmatch anything. I've never heard of the term photomatch until I started reading this forum despite collecting game used memorabilia cards for 10+ years (and just normal cards for twice as long).

Anyway, long winded post, but the moral of the story is that most card collectors (in my experience) don't care about details. They figure that Donruss or Topps or Upper Deck says the jersey was used in a game, so it must've been.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

For arguments sake though, lets say this is jersey from the 1971 Pro Bowl, in my opinion, they should not put the year of 1976 anywhere on the card. It creates a cause for mass confusion. It will be one thing if the back of the card states the exact game it was used in but if it just states generically that it was used in an official NFL game or in an official Pro Bowl game, than there is an issue in my opinion.

For another arguments sake, cutting sports relics into iddy biddy pieces for the sake of a profit, creates a cause for mass confusion.

Just say "no" to jersey cards.

[RKO18]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

I think that the reason they put 1976 on the card is to give the impression that it's from his Pro Bowl from his MVP season. I don't own, nor have ever seen, one of these cards from this set in person, but I think that maybe about 10 - 20 of my hundreds of game used cards give actual dates for the game that the pieces were used. They're always extremely vague and give no details.

I will admit though, that after reading a thousand or so posts on this forum about all the details that game used memorabilia collectors go into for their items, I can see where this becomes an issue on this board. Buuuut, normally there isn't any details given and to be honest, I've never heard any card collectors complain (including myself). Now after reading this forum for a month or so, I wish there were TONS of details, but it never even occured to me before to care what game it was from or what season or to ever try to photmatch anything. I've never heard of the term photomatch until I started reading this forum despite collecting game used memorabilia cards for 10+ years (and just normal cards for twice as long).

Anyway, long winded post, but the moral of the story is that most card collectors (in my experience) don't care about details. They figure that Donruss or Topps or Upper Deck says the jersey was used in a game, so it must've been.

That is how I looked at it before the issue with this card and after reading about other issues on this board. Usually, I wouldn't care what game or year the patch game from so long as I knew it was honestly from a true game-worn jersey.

The reason why I do care with this card is because the reason I bought it is because it was from Tarkenton's MVP season. The next issue is (that if it is from another Pro Bowl and the jersey swatch is real), the inclusion of the 1976 date damages the credibility of the card in my eyes.

It very well might be real but to see such an obvious error (and/or deception) takes away a lot of the faith I would have otherwise put in the card and the company.

[skinsfan0521]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

That is how I looked at it before the issue with this card and after reading about other issues on this board. Usually, I wouldn't care what game or year the patch game from so long as I knew it was honestly from a true game-worn jersey.

The reason why I do care with this card is because the reason I bought it is because it was from Tarkenton's MVP season. The next issue is (that if it is from another Pro Bowl and the jersey swatch is real), the inclusion of the 1976 date damages the credibility of the card in my eyes.

It very well might be real but to see such an obvious error (and/or deception) takes away a lot of the faith I would have otherwise put in the card and the company.

I completely agree. That's what I'm saying... before I started reading all this stuff on here about all the details that people try to get to authenticate items I never gave it a second thought about what game, year, or anything else it came from.

I also agree that it's very deceiving when they put the date on there, but I think that generally card collectors couldn't care either way so that's why they get away with it. Nobody challenges them, so they don't have to worry about explaining themselves.

[RKO18]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

I completely agree. That's what I'm saying... before I started reading all this stuff on here about all the details that people try to get to authenticate items I never gave it a second thought about what game, year, or anything else it came from.

I also agree that it's very deceiving when they put the date on there, but I think that generally card collectors couldn't care either way so that's why they get away with it. Nobody challenges them, so they don't have to worry about explaining themselves.

Well when your a card company that has been around for 50 years, you need to get this stuff right. I kinda understand why putting 1976 on the card could add more luster to it but at the same time, these cards come in packs and I think that anyone would be thrilled to get a HOF'ers Pro Bowl jersey card, regardless of the year.

People usually not taking the time to do the research is no excuse for issues like this. If the dealer does not offer a refund on the item, I really might call up Donruss and make an issue of it. I'm not that kind of person but they need to get their stuff right and/or be more accurate with cards of this nature.

[skinsfan0521]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

Well when your a card company that has been around for 50 years, you need to get this stuff right. I kinda understand why putting 1976 on the card could add more luster to it but at the same time, these cards come in packs and I think that anyone would be thrilled to get a HOF'ers Pro Bowl jersey card, regardless of the year.

People usually not taking the time to do the research is no excuse for issues like this. If the dealer does not offer a refund on the item, I really might call up Donruss and make an issue of it. I'm not that kind of person but they need to get their stuff right and/or be more accurate with cards of this nature.

I would actually just call Donruss first and see what they say. Sometimes they have some things to give you in exchange for your troubles are are really nice. They might have something of Tarkenton that is more rare or something like that they might exchange it for. It's not common, but they definitely do it sometimes, especially if you present all of this evidence about how they really screwed up and you can prove it.

[RKO18]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

I would actually just call Donruss first and see what they say. Sometimes they have some things to give you in exchange for your troubles are are really nice. They might have something of Tarkenton that is more rare or something like that they might exchange it for. It's not common, but they definitely do it sometimes, especially if you present all of this evidence about how they really screwed up and you can prove it.

Have you every experienced anything like this? Would they actually take away the Pro Bowl card in exchange for something more rare?Sounds interesting anyway.

[skinsfan0521]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

Have you every experienced anything like this? Would they actually take away the Pro Bowl card in exchange for something more rare?Sounds interesting anyway.

I've had "rare" cards (low serial #'d including 1/1) that were damaged and I've sent them back to the companies and they've made good. The only thing that I've personally done this with was just serial #'d cards. What they do is print another one, re-stamp the number and then sent me a couple other things to make up for it. Sometimes they're some really sweet rare autos and sometimes they're some crappy serial numbered card. Normally what they do is send out old redemption cards that haven't been claimed by the time the time period expired. But, on some forums that I'm on, I've heard several stories about people returning rare game used items due to damage and they have gotten some interesting things in return. I don't remember if they got their original card back or not.

In your case, with a rare patch card like that, I'd definitely work out all the details on the phone before you send it in. It's possible that they do something nice for you or they might give you the line about how it never says on there that it was worn in the 1976 pro bowl, so it's too bad for you.... you'll have to check it out.

[Eric]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

Here's a photo of the rear of the card...


I wonder if the item cut up for this card was this Tarkenton jersey that was sold at least twice before and came with a letter from Lampson, Bushing and Knoll at SCD Authentic

Here's a listing from 2003

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:RD8zgPGippQJ:www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/sporting-memorabilia-fran-tarkenton-pro-bowl-1-c-cvne1shfx3+%22fran+tarkenton%22+lampson+jersey&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

Here's a Hunt Auction listing from August 19 and 20, 2005

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=23&lot_num=236&lot_qual=

Interesting to note the font of the #1s are different. The one on the card goes horizontally, while the SCD Authentic one slopes down. (Not sure if this is supposed to be the jersey in the pic)

[RKO18]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

Here's a photo of the rear of the card...
[ATTACH]23931[/ATTACH]

I wonder if the item cut up for this card was this Tarkenton jersey that was sold at least twice before and came with a letter from Lampson, Bushing and Knoll at SCD Authentic

Here's a listing from 2003

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:RD8zgPGippQJ:www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/sporting-memorabilia-fran-tarkenton-pro-bowl-1-c-cvne1shfx3+%22fran+tarkenton%22+lampson+jersey&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

Here's a Hunt Auction listing from August 19 and 20, 2005

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=23&lot_num=236&lot_qual=

[ATTACH]23932[/ATTACH]

Interesting to note the font of the #1s are different. The one on the card goes horizontally, while the SCD Authentic one slopes down. (Not sure if this is supposed to be the jersey in the pic)

Thank you very much Eric, that was quite a bit of research their and does clear up a lot. It does (to an extent) restore my faith in the authenticity of the item. It does appear as if Tarkenton might be the only HOF'er in this Pro Bowl jersey set, if they were including bogus swatches, why not do so for more players?

I still have an issue with the 1976 being stated on the front, as well as the Vikings logo in the back. Clearly if this is real, it much have come from a Pro Bowl jersey he wore during his Giants days. Therefore, including 1976 and the Vikings logo seems to be a bit misleading while the statement of saying it was from an official Pro Bowl game (without specifying the year) does seem to be more legit.

A very curious situation indeed but I suppose it's a heck of a lot better than getting a swatch that wouldn't fit the style, design, or color of any jersey Tarkenton might have worn.

Now I ask this of you Eric, what do you think about this card? Do you think that it is the real-deal that was produced with a poor date or do you think their might be more to be concerned about?

[RKO18]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

I just now realized that clicking on the images in the link posted earlier in the thread would display the back of the card.

I'm disturbed by the Jamal Lewis nameplate cards. The back of those cards say that the jersey was from one that Lewis wore in an official ProBowl game where clearly, those nameplate patches game from an exclusive Ravens jersey.

This would worry me a lot if I had that card, but the question is...does their mistake with the Lewis cards in the set bring fourth a cause for concern regarding other cards in the set, let's say...the Fran Tarkenton card?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

It does (to an extent) restore my faith in the authenticity of the item.

Sir? Who? What? When? Where? How?
The photo of Fran on the card shows the '71 Pro Bowl Game. The earlier posted news article verifies the '71 game as the only game he played. The Jersey posted by Eric and the photo of Fran on the card are not the same jersey. Different fonts on the "1"s.
My teeth are beginning to hurt, so will someone explain what I'm missing?

[suave1477]

Re: Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

Sir? Who? What? When? Where? How?
The photo of Fran on the card shows the '71 Pro Bowl Game. The earlier posted news article verifies the '71 game as the only game he played. The Jersey posted by Eric and the photo of Fran on the card are not the same jersey. Different fonts on the "1"s.
My teeth are beginning to hurt, so will someone explain what I'm missing?

I would have to agree with Both Teams. I am not sure how your faith is restored? If it came from the Jersey that was LOA'd by Lampson that's a whole ball of wax in itself.

Eric also points out difference's in 2 possible Jerseys.

I am not saying it is good or bad, but this definteily needs to be looked into further or just kindly request your money back with all the question marks on this piece.

Just my opinion!!