Lebron jersey - A5

**trsent** · 05-21-2009, 03:53 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Originally posted by kingjammy24

1) troy kinunen: "Before we issue the A5 grade, the following criteria must first be met:
"Manufactures characteristics of the jersey have been compared to known authentic examples and match in..size"

This is the process that elimates store bought jerseys from game issued jerseys... each item is checked via our worksheet and compared to our database for:
...
5. Correct size for player
...
10.We make sure the jersey was the proper size to be issued to that player

All of these manufacturers characteristics must be present before the A5 grade is considered for post 1987 jerseys.

Therefore, if the examined jersey does not match 100% correctly with all of the above, no A5 grade is awarded. Again, no store model jerseys as awarded the A5 grade, EVER....MEARS has never assigned a grade to a retail jersey"

2) barry meisel: "According to information we've received through the NBA & MeiGray Game-Worn Authentication Program, consistent with three photo-matched game-worn Lebron James jerseys we have authenticated (2005-06 regular season, 2006-07 Hardwood Classics currently up for auction, and 2007 NBA Finals Game 3 jersey that will be up for auction soon), and consistent with the 2007-08 China Games '07 Lebron James that just arrived ... Lebron James wears a Size 50, Plus-2 jersey.."

3) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150347096947

lebron james jersey. 52 + 4. widely available on the retail website jersey-joe.com for $600. size is incorrect. jersey was still awarded an A5.

rudy.

That sucks - I guess you are not going to buy this jersey.

If you have concerns about the MEARS letter, I would email troy@mearsonline.com with your concerns to get an answer from him that may help you determine if you wish to buy this jersey.

Please let us know how he replies.

**Danny899** · 05-21-2009, 03:56 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

I don't think the A5 score carries as much weight as it did a year or so ago. Even good points and concerns have been raised here regarding higher ratings. The A5 sounds like it means, "Yeah it could be, looks like it, not sure, but it could possibly be." They do however seem to do a lot more research than most companies who just put out a generic letter. But after a $200 or so fee, a non experienced buyer probably would want something much more concrete. An example would be myself, who knows nothing about basketball jerseys. If I was to purchase a Lebron jersey based on this score (in essence letting them do the homework) and then I later read the issues posted above, I would have serious concerns about my purchase.

**trsent** · 05-21-2009, 04:03 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Originally posted by Danny899

I don't think the A5 score carries as much weight as it did a year or so ago. Even good points and concerns have been raised here regarding higher ratings. The A5 sounds like it means, "Yeah it could be, looks like it, not sure, but it could possibly be." They do however seem to do a lot more research than most companies who just put out a generic letter. But after a $200 or so fee, a non experienced buyer probably would want something much more concrete. An example would be myself, who knows nothing about basketball jerseys. If I was to purchase a Lebron jersey based on this score (in essence letting them do the homework) and then I later read the issues posted above, I would have serious concerns about my purchase.

Danny - You are 100% correct. The A5 grade is often abused in the current marketplace, but please take note - the issues raised by Rudy based on one jersey authenticated by another company thus making it impossible for LeBron to have worn another size during the entire NBA season is not enough evidence to raise questions about this jersey.

**kingjammy24** · 05-21-2009, 05:05 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

"...thus making it impossible for LeBron to have worn another size during the entire NBA season is not enough evidence to raise questions about this jersey."

as usual joel, you've missed the boat. read the troy's requirements for the A5:

"5. Correct size for player
...
10.We make sure the jersey was the proper size to be issued to that player"

an A5 isn't granted on the basis that "anything is possible". is it possible that lebron wore a size 44? sure! technically, anything's possible. anything being possible does not mean it's the correct size. troy explicitly states that mears makes "..sure the jersey was the proper size to be issued to that player". well, here's my evidence that lebron wore a size 50 in 2005:

as well, barry meisel is known to have handled lebron's gamers obtained directly from the league. as such, i think his comments regarding lebron wearing a size 50 carry substantial weight.

conversely, how did troy "make sure" lebron wore a 52? does mears have a single shred of any sort of evidence that lebron wore a 52 in 2005/06?
he didn't make sure because no such evidence exists. it's just more mears doublespeak; mears says they stylematch things and it's been shown that they do not. now they're saying they make sure the size is correct and i am telling you they do not. the point here is that mears says that they do things that the evidence shows they do not.

it's very likely that at the time mears evaulated that jersey, they had no clue what size lebron really wore. if they had contacted barry meisel or spent some time on getty they might've learnt otherwise. so they had no idea yet they said their letter states that they know 52 is "the correct size". how did they arrive at that conclusion? what evidence? i arrived at my conclusion that he wore a 50 via images and barry meisel's opinion. how did mears arrive at their opinion? flip of a coin? spin the bottle?
it's yet another example of mears claiming to know things they do not. the last time i took troy to task for purporting to know things he didn't, he said it was to "build their database".

joel you should open an authentication service and call it "Anything's Possible"..

irate customer - "..in your LOA, you stated that a size 40 jersey was correct for pujols in 2003. how did you arrive at that unlikely size?"

JA - "well..is it possible that he wore a size 40?"

irate customer - "i guess it's technically possible.."

JA - "well there you go! correct size!"

rudy.

**kingjammy24** · 05-21-2009, 05:24 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

yet troy made sure that a 52 was issued to lebron. riiiiiiiight. just like their non-existent stylematches.

rudy.

**Mac670** · 05-21-2009, 05:27 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

In its current nba auction according to Meigrey he is sporting a 48+4 size jersey. How in the world can Lebron wear a 48+4 or 50+4 and Kobe wears a 54+4 and 56+4? I know Dans the lakers expert but can anybody tell me how can this be or is the tag just a tag and they really are measuring other parts of the jersey.

Anthony

**sportscentury** · 05-21-2009, 05:29 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Originally posted by Danny899

I don't think the A5 score carries as much weight as it did a year or so ago. Even good points and concerns have been raised here regarding higher ratings. The A5 sounds like it means, "Yeah it could be, looks like it, not sure, but it could possibly be." They do however seem to do a lot more research than most companies who just put out a generic letter. But after a $200 or so fee, a non experienced buyer probably would want something much more concrete. An example would be myself, who knows nothing about basketball jerseys. If I was to purchase a Lebron jersey based on this score (in essence letting them do the homework) and then I later read the issues posted above, I would have serious concerns about my purchase.

I was always surprised by the weight the A5 grade carried. From a simple common sense perspective (regardless of MEARS' definition of A5), if an item is graded a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10, you would think that folks would understand that this is not a particularly high grade. Even if I were really into authentications, I wouldn't be too quick to go after a grade 7 or 8, never mind a 5.

**sportscentury** · 05-21-2009, 05:30 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Originally posted by Mac670

In its current nba auction according to Meigrey he is sporting a 48+4 size jersey. How in the world can Lebron wear a 48+4 or 50+4 and Kobe wears a 54+4 and 56+4? I know Dans the lakers expert but can anybody tell me how can this be or is the tag just a tag and they really are measuring other parts of the jersey.

Anthony

LeBron's jerseys fit him. Kobe is swimming in his. Take a look at some live pics and you'll see what I mean.

**kingjammy24** · 05-21-2009, 05:33 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Originally posted by sportscentury

.. if an item is graded a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10, you would think that folks would understand that this is not a particularly high grade...

"The highest grade a post-1987 jersey can obtain without team or player documentation, or verifiable provenance, or a combination of known distinct player specific traits is an A5."

rudy.

**kingjammy24** · 05-21-2009, 05:42 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Originally posted by sportscentury

LeBron's jerseys fit him. Kobe is swimming in his. Take a look at some live pics and you'll see what I mean.

rudy.

**sportscentury** · 05-21-2009, 06:14 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Originally posted by kingjammy24

"The highest grade a post-1987 jersey can obtain without team or player documentation, or verifiable provenance, or a combination of known distinct player specific traits is an A5."

rudy.

Based on my complete post, I hope it was clear that I was speaking from the perspective of someone who doesn't know the MEARS specifics. My guess is that many collectors who buy these A5 jerseys are not well-versed on the MEARS rules and definitions.

Even knowing the specifics, though, I'm not sure that I find "the highest grade" (of A5) on a scale that is this qualified all that compelling.

With all of this said, it seems to mean a lot to a good number of collectors. I just never understood it.

.

**trsent** · 05-21-2009, 07:11 PM

Re: LeBron jersey - A5

Rudy, did you ask Troy about this jersey as I suggested? Maybe he could answer your questions as it appears you feel you know every size worn by LeBron that year and maybe Troy could shed some light with an answer instead of your one sided crusade to smear the MEARS name time and time again.

**kingjammy24** · 05-21-2009, 10:26 PM

Re: LeBron jersey - A5

Originally posted by trsent

Rudy, did you ask Troy about this jersey as I suggested?

i have an email in to troy about it. i eagerly await his response. i shall post it as soon as i receive it.

rudy.

**kingjammy24** · 05-21-2009, 11:48 PM

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

as always, troy was good enough to reply:

"Here is the complete definition of the A5 grade as found on our website.

"A5 Manufactures characteristics of the jersey have been compared to known authentic examples and are consistent with respects to what would be expected to be seen in a game issued jersey. Each piece is also evaluated on the degree of evident use and wear, which must be consistent with that of the player, sport, position, field of play, and duration of use. The degree of wear will be measured from minimal to heavy and the jersey cannot exhibit negative, missing, or incorrect manufacturers traits or use characteristics. When team or player provenance is lacking, wear can be measured, but not attributed directly to examined player. Without reasonable and verifiable provenance for post-1987 Hall of Fame or period star player jersey's, the A5 designation may still be assigned if the jersey possesses qualities and physical characteristics of a Major League jersey that was manufactured for player use or as an extra for a team or player, or one that may have been made available for retail sale or promotion (while still containing the physical characteristics consistent with game issued jerseys). It should be noted that variances with respect to number/lettering placement, font, stitching, size, patch placement and other manufacturers characteristics may be present on MEARS A5 jerseys when compared to documented game used jerseys. A MEARS A5 jersey may still be assigned the grade without an accompanying photomatch or may exhibit variations when compared to an examined available image."

fair enough. however, with such leeway in sizes (and without any evidence supporting one size over another), the idea of a "correct" size is pretty much thrown out the window. what becomes an "incorrect" size? a 52 is fine, a 50 is fine, a 48 is good. somehow they're all "correct"; at least on paper, if not reality. apparently, if a MEARS LOO states that a size is "correct" it doesn't actually mean the size is correct. it may simply mean that the authenticator was afforded a large size variance. so if you buy a jersey and the letter, for example, states that a size 50 is "correct" for a certain player, it's not that MEARS has verified that the size is correct; it's simply that the size is somewhere in the ballpark of the size that the player really wore. if they really wore a 48 then a 50 would be considered "correct". bizarro-world but there you have it.

rudy.

Lebron jersey - A5

Lebron jersey - A5

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