GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

[otismalibu]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

A pre-season jersey, even if used in exhibitions, is really a glorified practice jersey, as this is what the teams are doing in exhibition games - practicing for the real thing.

I know what you're saying, but no one is going to confuse a practice jersey with a game jersey. Sure it's pre-season, but it's still a game. There's a crowd, refs, box score, etc.

I'd rather have the jersey he was wearing when he made his first basket in a pre-season game, than the jersey he was wearing when he made his first shot at Bulls practice.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

Rudy
There is no doubt that you have proven the Grey Flannel Jordan was not used in his first regular season game.
I will not debate the practice jersey vs. pre-season jersey argument. It's a matter of personal taste and finances. But, I don't have the finances.
ALL BOGUS JORDAN JERSEYS HAVE MESSED IT UP FOR THE REAL ONES! So, I believe that all Jordan jerseys are nothing more than "pro-cuts". With my thinking, I can't be selected to be on the jury for this trial.

Does anyone own this "pro-cut"?

[sox83cubs84]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

It's possible that the jersey, if indeed, a number changed, recycled piece, was from 1982-83. Two players wore 35 that year: Larry Kenon and Larry Spriggs.

Rudy: I have seen the collar tag in early 1980s Rawlings jerseys (Bulls and Rockets), but the ones I can remember usually had some type of tail tag also. Not saying the jersey being analyzed is wrong, but saying that it would be unusual.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[sportscentury]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

I know what you're saying, but no one is going to confuse a practice jersey with a game jersey. Sure it's pre-season, but it's still a game. There's a crowd, refs, box score, etc.

I'd rather have the jersey he was wearing when he made his first basket in a pre-season game, than the jersey he was wearing when he made his first shot at Bulls practice.

Greg, no question about it. The first regular season jersey is worth way more than his first exhibition game jersey, but his first exhibition game jersey is worth way more than his first practice jersey. I think nearly all collectors would agree with this. I just think of exhibition jerseys as a special type of practice jersey in that they are worn when the players/teams are practicing for what counts.

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

a few thoughts

- the numbers are atypical. to me, it suggests they may not have been applied by rawlings. perhaps the bulls had exhibition jerseys modified locally because of a need for a faster turnaround than they'd normally have for regular season shirts and this local shop screwed up the numbers. i think the incorrect numbers somewhat bolster the idea of it being an exhibition shirt.

- it's clear that by jordan's first road game, the bulls already had a jersey with the correct number fonts for him.

- i'm curious if bidders will be bidding on this shirt as if it's jordan's first regular season gamer or as if it's an exhibition shirt. GFC previously auctioned off a 1984 jordan home gamer, with bulls loa, and it sold for a little over $55k. REA sold a 1984 jordan road gamer, including shorts, that rated a MEARS A10, for over $70k. oddly enough REA also auctioned off a 1984 jordan home gamer, also including shorts, also a MEARS A10 and it sold for almost $50k. not sure why there was a $20k difference between the road and home uniforms in the REA auctions. should be interesting to see how collectors interpret this GFC jersey. any guesses as to the value of it?

rudy.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

It's possible that the jersey, if indeed, a number changed, recycled piece, was from 1982-83. Two players wore 35 that year: Larry Kenon and Larry Spriggs.

Rudy: I have seen the collar tag in early 1980s Rawlings jerseys (Bulls and Rockets), but the ones I can remember usually had some type of tail tag also. Not saying the jersey being analyzed is wrong, but saying that it would be unusual.

Dave M.
Chicago area

Rudy:

I checked Getty and found a photo attributed to a December 1982 Bulls-Bucks game in Milwaukee. Reggie Theus is shown in the photo, and the numeric font on his 1982-83 jersey matches the font on this Jordan shirt. The Bulls numeric font changed in the 1983-84 season. It seems odd, though, that a number changed shirt from 1984 preseson wouldn't have the normal numeric font for that time frame, unless the number change was made back in 1982-83, and the name on back that is imprinted underneath Jordan's is someone other than the 2 #35 players mentioned in my first post above. Looks like some more digging needs to be done.

Dave Miedema
Chicago area

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

Rudy:

I checked Getty and found a photo attributed to a December 1982 Bulls-Bucks game in Milwaukee. Reggie Theus is shown in the photo, and the numeric font on his 1982-83 jersey matches the font on this Jordan shirt. The Bulls numeric font changed in the 1983-84 season. It seems odd, though, that a number changed shirt from 1984 preseson wouldn't have the normal numeric font for that time frame, unless the number change was made back in 1982-83, and the name on back that is imprinted underneath Jordan's is someone other than the 2 #35 players mentioned in my first post above. Looks like some more digging needs to be done.

Dave Miedema
Chicago area

if you look at photos on getty of the 1982/83 bulls, you'll see them apparently wearing 2 different fonts. i found a few players wearing each style so it wasn't simply an error on 1 jersey. here are the 2 styles:



anyway, i agree that it is odd that the font doesn't match the timeframe. not sure why a 1984 jersey would have a 1982 font. in 1982, #23 was mike bratz. bratz was 6'2" though, compared to jordan's 6'6". in 1981 and 1983 noone wore #23. very hard to tell if the previous name and number were changed at the same time. i've tried various techniques to try to discern the previous name but can't with any certainty. the previous number is definitely #35 though and the first letter is "W". i think it's likely to have belonged to a player who didn't make the squad.

you know what would be nice? for the "official authenticator to the NBA hall of fame" to fully disclose all pertinent information to this $50k jersey instead of spending most of the description reminding people that michael jordan was an icon. i'd like to see GFC:

1) disclose when/where the photo that they posted was taken
2) provide an explanation behind the incorrect number font
3) suss out whether this jersey was solely a preseason shirt or whether it ever saw regular season action
4) properly label the jersey as "jordan's first preseason game jersey" if that's really what it is and then provide some sort of argument about why jordan's first preseason shirt was a road shirt, as opposed to a home shirt.
rudy.

basically, for the approx. $20k they stand to profit on this jersey, i'd like to see some actual authentication done. maybe they could even produce a letter from charles jeffrey.

rudy.

[lund6771]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

If Jordan was wearing the correct font in his first few regular season games, what are the chances that he was wearing a make-shift jersey after that?...probably not to good

personally I would much rather have a regular season jersey than a pre-season, regardless if it was worn in his first or 8th pre-season game

I consider this piece more of a novelty item unless it's proven to be a regular season jersey...I wouldn't even pay half of what it's going for now

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

If Jordan was wearing the correct font in his first few regular season games, what are the chances that he was wearing a make-shift jersey after that?...probably not to good

exactly.

the bulls had a 'proper' jersey for him as of his very first road game (game #2 of his career). with that being the case, i can't see why he'd be issued a stripped jersey with an incorrect font afterwards. i could see it occurring during his later years when he became a superstar and was giving away jerseys and having them stolen and "lost" left, right and center and had to have some made up asap. (i'm remembering the time he had to enter a game wearing a #12 retail shirt, with no nob, after his jersey had been stolen right before a game). even though he was a highly-touted rookie in 1984, i don't think he went through 10 or 15 jerseys that season. in '84, i think guys like bernard king, magic, and larry bird were bigger stars. plus, it's not like there was a booming game-used market in '84. i think whatever jerseys jordan was issued near the start of the '84 season likely carried him through until the end of it and it's clear that jordan begun the season with properly-"fonted" jerseys.

i think the GFC shirt is neat and i think it's great that GFC found a photo of jordan wearing the incorrect font, but i think there's a big issue regarding whether jordan ever even wore it during the regular season. i too would rather have a regular season jersey than a preseason shirt, even if it was the "first preseason jersey issued to jordan". i'd want a jersey that played in an official game where jordan scored points that were counted towards his career totals. to me, jordan's first preseason shirt isn't all that different from his first practice jersey. i might even be more interested in his first practice shirt because at least that would truly be the very first bulls jersey ever issued to him and the one in which he took his very first shot as an NBA player.

rudy.

[otismalibu]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

Let me get this straight.

You're saying there is a superstar game worn item up for bid with a major auction house, but it's not exactly as advertised?

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

fyi, this GFC jordan shirt was scheduled to have been auctioned off in 2007 by sothebys but for some reason it was pulled or didn't sell as it doesn't seem to have ended up in the final results:

http://men.style.com/news/style/060407

auction results:

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot...how_lot_name=Y

rudy.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

fyi, this GFC jordan shirt was scheduled to have been auctioned off in 2007 by sothebys but for some reason it was pulled or didn't sell as it doesn't seem to have ended up in the final results:

http://men.style.com/news/style/060407

auction results:

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot...how_lot_name=Y

rudy.

Rudy,

You may be onto something here.

Could it be the same jersey, reappearing, that was pulled because there was a discovery as to it's authenticity back in 2007?

Very interesting. I suppose someone could contact Sotheby's and inquire why the jersey appears to have been pulled as it doesn't show up in the "results" posted. My guess, is that it was item #151 (as that one is skipped in the posted results and falls in with the basketball jerseys/items).

Interesting find Rudy....brings about a bunch of legit questions.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

Rudy:

The photo of the player in the red #22 Bulls uniform you showed in your post is from the 1981-82 season, not the 1982-83 campaign. Getty IDs the player as Ray Blume, who wore #22 for the Bulls only in 1981-82...In 1982-83, Rod Higgins wore #22, and can be seen in that style jersey on his 1983-84 Star Co. BSKB card.

The research continues...

Dave M.
Chicago area

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

Rudy:

The photo of the player in the red #22 Bulls uniform you showed in your post is from the 1981-82 season, not the 1982-83 campaign. Getty IDs the player as Ray Blume, who wore #22 for the Bulls only in 1981-82...In 1982-83, Rod Higgins wore #22, and can be seen in that style jersey on his 1983-84 Star Co. BSKB card.

The research continues...

Dave M.
Chicago area

dave

how's this:



the photo shows #53 for the bulls, mark olberding. he's the tall, bearded fellow. olberding only played one season for the bulls - 1982/83. in 1981/82 he played for for the spurs. check out the guy behind olberding wearing #2-something.

rudy.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

the photo shows #53 for the bulls, mark olberding. he's the tall, bearded fellow. olberding only played one season for the bulls - 1982/83.

Were Dave Corzine and Mark Olberding twin brothers?